NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

I’m waaayyy behind as stuck in work I can’t escape and so it will be a mammoth catch up this evening! I’m ever appreciative of everyone’s updates and commentary x

J: It is respondent's decision.

NC: Not really -

J: In this jurisdiction it is.

JR: Can we have a 5 minute break?

J: Indeed [BREAK]

Who's going to win the fight about who we have next though?

@ickky well done and thanks

Were there tears? Cos I'd expect tears if it's been so horrendous & harassing etc.

Any news about regained public access? I can't imagine the demand will be as intense now that the main attraction (so to speak) has done with his evidence but I'd be quite interested in watching if possible.

What is this judges deal maaaaaan

Ooooh steady there, NC, don't YOU start arguing with the judge😧

I think the Judge is getting tetchy at NC because of the time wasted, but it was not her doing.

Is the J getting shirty with NC about missing docs and not with JR?

His plan was to get Sandie sacked, as revenge for her daring to confront him. He never dreamt she'd fight back. It's glorious that his plan has backfired so spectacularly.

Dear darling Ben, if you're passing through Mumsnet, you need to up your game. All hail Naomi, Queen of the North.

Might have to keep his "biological female" GMC number though. Which is probably different to his pre transition birth male GRC number. Or is it?

It is stark raving bonkers - bet he had a hard-on all the while spilling lies in the box. Reprehensible.

if only she wouldn't make such a fuss about it all, silly woman

He’s worried about other witnesses /cameras etc.

Because he is not impartial.
He probably wanted this to be a nice easy judgement and now there is missing documents and complications.

There you have it.

Women not wanting to be forced to get changed in front of men is harassment not just of those men, but all the men in the country who demand it.

Ugh.

Just caught up! Thank you everyone. Just to demonstrate how far behind I was, when he said it would be up to the woman, who had asked for a female Doctor, to object if he walked in, I had to have an exam with an ultrasound. My knickers were off and I was in the stirrups before I even saw the Doctor. Not the best position to be in to raise objections.

Also regarding his tardiness in doing anything about the patient safety, I had to deal with enforcement of laws (many years ago so memory is fuzzy), it was 'acts or omissions' meaning if we were aware of a breach and did not follow procedure we became liable, as liable as the person who was actually responsible for the breach. I wonder if patient safety is covered similarly. If it is and DU did nothing for weeks, he'd be in as much trouble as Sandie except it seems to have been, at best, exaggerated to get her in trouble and beef up his nothing sandwich. Arguably the hospital might also be liable when they became aware he'd witnessed something, he did sweet fa for an unreasonable period of time.

It is.

Accountability for thee but not for meeee

Goodness me. Reading Upton's replies on the stand today has been quite stressful as it took me back to when ex vexatiously dragged me through family courts, including making false allegations. I'd asked him to leave when DD was a few weeks old because I'd been increasingly unhappy with him being quite controlling and his drunkenly shouting in my face after DD was born was the final straw. I remember him telling me before going to his solicitor that he knew he could make things difficult for me and that's exactly what he was going to do. Upton's manner today brought it all back.

I think they've all gone to have an argument again.

Thank you ickky and nauticant.

I've nothing in the diary for tomorrow, but on TT it sounded as if they might be shuffling witnesses.

It seems quite clear that there was never any actual patient safety incident, only the potential for one in his head.

Thanks @ickky and @nauticant