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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling on Billy Bragg and other progressive male class warriors

109 replies

AstonsStolenData · 28/04/2024 16:19

JKR uses Billy Bragg's quote: “My problem with people like Rowling, like Julie Bindel, is really who they are lined up with” to address the misogyny of many brogressive men:

Over the last few years, a huge number of PMCWs have become men’s rights activists in all but name, and it’s been profoundly depressing, if not entirely unexpected, to see how enjoyable they’ve found it. Even while attacking women for finding themselves on the same side as right-wingers, the PMCWs stampeded to join the team that was threatening women with rape and violence, harassing women’s conferences, attempting to block access to gender critical events and physically assaulting female demonstrators.

It's a powerful essay.

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1784586797525184794

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1784586797525184794

OP posts:
AstonsStolenData · 28/04/2024 16:22

Here's the tweet. (Sorry, I couldn't copy the quote from the Observer, which is at the end of the tweet.)

This comment by@billybragg perfectly sums up what left wing women have taken from left wing men over the last few years. The problem isn’t whether Julie Bindel and I are correct on the issues, but that certain right-wingers agree with us.

If you’ve spent any time at all on the left of politics, you’re familiar with the progressive male class warrior, usually middle-class himself, whose interest in women’s issues begins and ends with sex work, stripping and abortions. He might claim to be a feminist ally and mutter vaguely about ‘equality’ if the need arises, but when a genuine assault on women’s rights erupted under his nose, he cut left wing women adrift without a second thought. He expected us to be so blindly tribal that we’d surrender single sex spaces, jettison the very language we use to describe ourselves, give up fair sport, agree rapists should be locked up in women’s prisons and that lesbians are bigots for not wanting to sleep with the penis-ed, because (horrors!) some people on the right thought these things were wrong, too.

Over the last few years, a huge number of PMCWs have become men’s rights activists in all but name, and it’s been profoundly depressing, if not entirely unexpected, to see how enjoyable they’ve found it. Even while attacking women for finding themselves on the same side as right-wingers, the PMCWs stampeded to join the team that was threatening women with rape and violence, harassing women’s conferences, attempting to block access to gender critical events and physically assaulting female demonstrators. PMCWs are everywhere online, lecturing women reliant on state-run services for not welcoming the male-bodied into communal changing rooms and rape crisis shelters, presuming to police women’s language and tone, turning a blind eye to all statistics on male sexual violence that might contradict the ‘you’re all scaremongering bigots’ narrative and demonstrating that their deepest empathy will always be reserved for those who were born with a penis.

The truth is that the left has fucked up monumentally on gender identity ideology and until it owns the mistake, it will continue to hand the right valid talking points. As more and more PMCWs realise this, they’ll take shameless refuge in accusations that we, the women criticising the injustice and insanity of gender identity ideology, were enabling the far-right. The fact is that they’ve done exactly that, by refusing to accept that there was anything wrong with a movement that was causing serious harm to troubled young people, trampling all over women’s rights and seeking to remove single-sex services for the most vulnerable.

The sense of betrayal women on the left feel towards men like Bragg will take a long time to disappear, if it ever does. I think we all take some grim satisfaction, though, in the fact that evidence of the PMCWs’ misogyny and complicity is a matter of public record, because the panicky back-pedalling and whitewashing that’s just begun is quite something to behold.

OP posts:
Pudmyboy · 28/04/2024 16:28

Basic question: is PMCW 'progressive male class warrior '?
Thanks for the post OP I am going to make a cuppa and read it in a little while

Screamingabdabz · 28/04/2024 16:28

😙👌🏼

Windymoore · 28/04/2024 16:32

God,she really can write ...and nail someone to the wall with the sharpness of her argument.

AstonsStolenData · 28/04/2024 16:32

Pudmyboy · 28/04/2024 16:28

Basic question: is PMCW 'progressive male class warrior '?
Thanks for the post OP I am going to make a cuppa and read it in a little while

That's how I read it.

OP posts:
JustSpeculation · 28/04/2024 16:33

I go for Post Modern Culture Warrior.

RoyalCorgi · 28/04/2024 16:33

Brilliant as ever, from Rowling. It hardly needs saying, but she's much smarter than he is. He won't be able to rebut her argument because I don't think he even understands it.

Tallisker · 28/04/2024 16:36

She says in the full text 'progressive male class warrior'.

Agree, terrific writing.

JustSpeculation · 28/04/2024 16:36

JustSpeculation · 28/04/2024 16:33

I go for Post Modern Culture Warrior.

But thinking about it, Progressive Male Class Warrior works a bit better.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 28/04/2024 16:43

The progressive Left have always been anti women. They blindly accept any male argument, have to be forced to have women on executive committees because everyone knows that the Left wont vote a woman into a position of power. The Corbynistas were desperate to take away the achievements of an outstanding Labour female politician ( Mo Mowlam) and hand it to a mediocre man (Jeremy Corbyn) in relation to NI and the Good Friday agreement, sections of the Trans Activist Harry Potter fans were campaigning again to get the works of an outstanding woman (JKR) and get them reattributed to the mediocre Daniel Radcliffe. Virtually all worldwide murders of trans people where their trans status was a major part have been committed by men, yet its gender critical women who are killing trans people with their words. No campaigning against male violence to women and trans women. The little lambs cant help it. They are radicalised into violence by middle aged women and their defence of science.

Floisme · 28/04/2024 16:48

I normally try and avoid posting on threads about BB because I honestly don't think he deserves all the attention. But I'll make an exception for this, in fact I might have to learn it by heart, particularly this bit:
'The truth is that the left has fucked up monumentally on gender identity ideology and until it owns the mistake, it will continue to hand the right valid talking points.'

And this;
The sense of betrayal women on the left feel towards men like Bragg will take a long time to disappear, if it ever does.'

And, I have to say, I apply it to some women on the left too.
I'm not sure I will ever forgive.

JungsWordTest · 28/04/2024 17:00

She is a phenomenal debater. Her arguments, of course, will have no sway on BB himself, but perhaps they will serve to get some others doubting and thinking ...

JungsWordTest · 28/04/2024 17:02

At the very least - and it's still hugely significant - she is able to articulate what so few have been able to do. This is a slippery ideology, designed to subvert and up-end. Through it all, JK has been able to stay on an even keel, which can be so helpful.

Pudmyboy · 28/04/2024 17:03

JustSpeculation · 28/04/2024 16:36

But thinking about it, Progressive Male Class Warrior works a bit better.

Both are good 😊

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/04/2024 17:10

DramaLlamaBangBang · 28/04/2024 16:43

The progressive Left have always been anti women. They blindly accept any male argument, have to be forced to have women on executive committees because everyone knows that the Left wont vote a woman into a position of power. The Corbynistas were desperate to take away the achievements of an outstanding Labour female politician ( Mo Mowlam) and hand it to a mediocre man (Jeremy Corbyn) in relation to NI and the Good Friday agreement, sections of the Trans Activist Harry Potter fans were campaigning again to get the works of an outstanding woman (JKR) and get them reattributed to the mediocre Daniel Radcliffe. Virtually all worldwide murders of trans people where their trans status was a major part have been committed by men, yet its gender critical women who are killing trans people with their words. No campaigning against male violence to women and trans women. The little lambs cant help it. They are radicalised into violence by middle aged women and their defence of science.

That's a cracking post Drama Flowers

Waitwhat23 · 28/04/2024 17:18

I cheered when I read it.

Civilservant · 28/04/2024 17:22

‘Progressive’ should be in quotation marks because the stance these men take on women’s matters is not progressive: quite the opposite.

KohlaParasaurus · 28/04/2024 17:23

Brilliant. I know which side of the table I want to be on.

KnitFastDieWarm · 28/04/2024 17:28

I grew up around a lot of very left-wing men. The attitude is very much ‘calm down love, we’re planning the revolution here, now make us a cup of tea’. Any reference to feminism that isn’t primarily centred on marxist-feminist concepts (and thus ‘relevant’ to their interests) is seen as hysterical fuss-making by a bunch of harridans who are distracting from the real class warfare issue.

RedToothBrush · 28/04/2024 17:32

One of the replies to JKR needs to be added here.

Pictures speak a thousand words.

JK Rowling on Billy Bragg and other progressive male class warriors
RedToothBrush · 28/04/2024 17:47

Civilservant · 28/04/2024 17:22

‘Progressive’ should be in quotation marks because the stance these men take on women’s matters is not progressive: quite the opposite.

They identify as progressive.

CarobBean72 · 28/04/2024 18:26

Progressive Male Class… but I think the W might not necessarily stand for Warriors.

it’s brilliant, isn’t it?

JanesLittleGirl · 28/04/2024 18:42

Merchant Bankers?

Ofcourseshecan · 28/04/2024 19:32

Pudmyboy · 28/04/2024 16:28

Basic question: is PMCW 'progressive male class warrior '?
Thanks for the post OP I am going to make a cuppa and read it in a little while

Yes, she says it in full at first mention: If you’ve spent any time at all on the left of politics, you’re familiar with the progressive male class warrior,

Ofcourseshecan · 28/04/2024 19:46

KnitFastDieWarm · 28/04/2024 17:28

I grew up around a lot of very left-wing men. The attitude is very much ‘calm down love, we’re planning the revolution here, now make us a cup of tea’. Any reference to feminism that isn’t primarily centred on marxist-feminist concepts (and thus ‘relevant’ to their interests) is seen as hysterical fuss-making by a bunch of harridans who are distracting from the real class warfare issue.

Oh god that was the 1970s for me!