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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling on Billy Bragg and other progressive male class warriors

109 replies

AstonsStolenData · 28/04/2024 16:19

JKR uses Billy Bragg's quote: “My problem with people like Rowling, like Julie Bindel, is really who they are lined up with” to address the misogyny of many brogressive men:

Over the last few years, a huge number of PMCWs have become men’s rights activists in all but name, and it’s been profoundly depressing, if not entirely unexpected, to see how enjoyable they’ve found it. Even while attacking women for finding themselves on the same side as right-wingers, the PMCWs stampeded to join the team that was threatening women with rape and violence, harassing women’s conferences, attempting to block access to gender critical events and physically assaulting female demonstrators.

It's a powerful essay.

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1784586797525184794

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1784586797525184794

OP posts:
SidewaysOtter · 30/04/2024 16:07

ISaySteadyOn · 30/04/2024 07:13

I think @MoltenLasagne has it. As a young woman I bought completely into the simplistic dichotomy of Left=Good, Right=Bad.

When the Left does something like reduce women to a feeling in a male head and shows you their true beliefs about women while patronisingly informing you that you are a bigot by refusing to accept your place as costume, it comes as a shock. This is the good side!

And then you think about it a little more and talk to different people and discover that people who are on the right are not all card carrying, finger tapping, Mr Burnsesque villains. That also comes as a shock. This is the bad side!

This is what happened to me. I am now trying to unravel my bundle of beliefs and see which are mine and which I ended up carrying because I wanted to be a Good Person. From what I have read on here, I don't think I am the only one.

I completely agree on the left=good, right=bad thing.

I'd say I'm centre-ish left-ish. I believe in a state that looks after its weaker and more vulnerable members, and gives them a good standard of living with autonomy over their lives and the additional support they need. A state that gives people a hand up when they need it, e.g. proper support in finding a job with reasonable expectations and compassion in not unreasonably sanctioning someone who missed an appointment because the buses weren't running.

I also believe that good quality healthcare, childcare, housing and education should be available to all, either free at the point of use (healthcare and education) or at a level that is affordable to everyone (childcare and state housing).

I believe that those who can afford to pay more taxes should do so.

But I also believe that with the rights come responsibilities and that means not seeing "being on benefits" as a lifestyle choice (yes, I know it's a minority but I absolutely have known people who've done this), anti-social behaviour not being tolerated via harsher penalties etc. etc.

I also believe women's rights are important and should be protected.

To some this makes me a soft old lefty, to others I'm a right winger.

But what I have to ask is...why does it matter? It only matters if you're going to categorise the "wrong" choice as bad.

Abhannmor · 30/04/2024 17:24

Quite agree @SidewaysOtter. But everyone is at it. Wes Streeting was part of an online group trying to drive feminists out of the Labour Party. He wants to privatise the NHS and is ' Starmer's anointed successor who looks like his son only made out of margarine ' Alexei Sayle. Not much of a class warrior then.

Although Alexei would say that - he is besties with that horrid anti semite Corbyn. But hang on , Alexei is Jewish. What a tangled web we weave.....

DramaLlamaBangBang · 30/04/2024 20:26

EdithStourton · 30/04/2024 10:06

And no, the analogy was offensive because it was uncalled for and irrelevant.
LOL.
Party allows Rosie Duffield to get metaphorically beaten up ('You bloody had it coming!').
Party wants to bring in self-ID and when women say, um, this could be dangerous, we're met with howls of 'BIGOT! NO DEBATE!' ('Shut up, you stupid cow! You think you're gonna get hurt? I don't fuckin' care!')

I used the analogy because I thought it was spot on.

FYI, I grew up in a home where my father used coercive control and occasionally physical violence (usually towards me not my mother, but that let him get at her). I know whereof I speak.

Some guy is looking at jail time for sending malicious communications to Rosie Duffield, so they must have been pretty horrible, yet she was abandoned by her colleagues.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/04/2024 21:31

DramaLlamaBangBang · 30/04/2024 20:26

Some guy is looking at jail time for sending malicious communications to Rosie Duffield, so they must have been pretty horrible, yet she was abandoned by her colleagues.

And Starmer is still telling fibs that he’s been in touch with Rosie on a regular basis. He could stop a lot of the hassle she gets by standing up (privately or publicly) and telling MP and SPADs to quit it. But that would take a spine, so…..🤷‍♀️

miri1985 · 01/05/2024 00:21

Wasn't sure this warranted its own thread but Daniel Radcliffe has given an interview

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/daniel-radcliffe-merrily-we-roll-along-jk-rowling/678219/

https://archive.ph/A6lvN

"Then, in June 2020, J. K. Rowling wrote a series of tweets that set off a media hullabaloo. She began by sarcastically commenting on an article that used the term people who menstruate, before doubling down in ways that many criticized as anti-trans.
A few days later, Radcliffe issued a personal statement through the Trevor Project. “I realize that certain press outlets will probably want to paint this as in-fighting between J. K. Rowling and myself, but that is really not what this is about, nor is it what’s important right now,” he began, before moving on to say: “Transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people and goes against all advice given by professional health care associations who have far more expertise on this subject matter than either Jo or I.”
He expressed hope that readers’ experiences with the Harry Potter books needn’t be tarnished by this, and argued that what people may have found within those books—for instance, “if they taught you that strength is found in diversity, and that dogmatic ideas of pureness lead to the oppression of vulnerable groups”—remains between readers and the books, “and it is sacred.”
“I’d worked with the Trevor Project for 12 years and it would have seemed like, I don’t know, immense cowardice to me to not say something,” Radcliffe says when I raise this subject. “I wanted to try and help people that had been negatively affected by the comments,” he tells me. “And to say that if those are Jo’s views, then they are not the views of everybody associated with the Potter franchise.”
Since those June 2020 tweets, Rowling has proclaimed, again and again, her belief in the importance of biological sex, and that the trans-rights movement seeks to undermine women as a protected class. Radcliffe says he had no direct contact with Rowling throughout any of this. “It makes me really sad, ultimately,” he says, “because I do look at the person that I met, the times that we met, and the books that she wrote, and the world that she created, and all of that is to me so deeply empathic.”
During the blowback, he was often thrown in together with his Harry Potter co-stars Emma Watson and Rupert Grint, who both also expressed their support for the trans community in response to Rowling’s comments. In the British press particularly, he says, “There’s a version of ‘Are these three kids ungrateful brats?’ that people have always wanted to write, and they were finally able to. So, good for them, I guess.” Never mind that he found the premise simply wrongheaded. “Jo, obviously Harry Potter would not have happened without her, so nothing in my life would have probably happened the way it is without that person. But that doesn’t mean that you owe the things you truly believe to someone else for your entire life.”
Radcliffe offered these carefully weighted reflections in the early months of this year, before Rowling (who declined to comment for this article) newly personalized their disagreements. In the second week of April, Rowling wrote a series of posts on X in response to the publication of a British-government-funded report that notes, as just one of a wide-ranging series of findings, that “for the majority of young people, a medical pathway may not be the best way” to help young people “presenting with gender incongruence or distress”; Rowling touted this as vindication of her views. When one of her supporters replied on X that they were “just waiting for Dan and Emma to give you a very public apology,” further suggesting that Radcliffe and Watson would be safe in the knowledge that Rowling would forgive them, she leaped in: “Not safe, I’m afraid,” she wrote, and characterized them as “celebs who cosied up to a movement intent on eroding women’s hard-won rights.”
In response, Radcliffe told me: “I will continue to support the rights of all LGBTQ people, and have no further comment than that.”"

How Daniel Radcliffe Outran Harry Potter

He was the world’s most famous child star. Then he had to figure out what came next.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/daniel-radcliffe-merrily-we-roll-along-jk-rowling/678219

UtopiaPlanitia · 01/05/2024 01:05

So basically Radcliffe is happy for us to know that he hasn’t taken on board or engaged with any of the intelligent and serious things that JKR has written on this subject. Oh and the UK press criticising him for this behaviour are just haterrz…🤷‍♀️🙄

Edited to add:

I think he’s a sanctimonious wee twerp.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 01/05/2024 08:08

miri1985 · 01/05/2024 00:21

Wasn't sure this warranted its own thread but Daniel Radcliffe has given an interview

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/daniel-radcliffe-merrily-we-roll-along-jk-rowling/678219/

https://archive.ph/A6lvN

"Then, in June 2020, J. K. Rowling wrote a series of tweets that set off a media hullabaloo. She began by sarcastically commenting on an article that used the term people who menstruate, before doubling down in ways that many criticized as anti-trans.
A few days later, Radcliffe issued a personal statement through the Trevor Project. “I realize that certain press outlets will probably want to paint this as in-fighting between J. K. Rowling and myself, but that is really not what this is about, nor is it what’s important right now,” he began, before moving on to say: “Transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people and goes against all advice given by professional health care associations who have far more expertise on this subject matter than either Jo or I.”
He expressed hope that readers’ experiences with the Harry Potter books needn’t be tarnished by this, and argued that what people may have found within those books—for instance, “if they taught you that strength is found in diversity, and that dogmatic ideas of pureness lead to the oppression of vulnerable groups”—remains between readers and the books, “and it is sacred.”
“I’d worked with the Trevor Project for 12 years and it would have seemed like, I don’t know, immense cowardice to me to not say something,” Radcliffe says when I raise this subject. “I wanted to try and help people that had been negatively affected by the comments,” he tells me. “And to say that if those are Jo’s views, then they are not the views of everybody associated with the Potter franchise.”
Since those June 2020 tweets, Rowling has proclaimed, again and again, her belief in the importance of biological sex, and that the trans-rights movement seeks to undermine women as a protected class. Radcliffe says he had no direct contact with Rowling throughout any of this. “It makes me really sad, ultimately,” he says, “because I do look at the person that I met, the times that we met, and the books that she wrote, and the world that she created, and all of that is to me so deeply empathic.”
During the blowback, he was often thrown in together with his Harry Potter co-stars Emma Watson and Rupert Grint, who both also expressed their support for the trans community in response to Rowling’s comments. In the British press particularly, he says, “There’s a version of ‘Are these three kids ungrateful brats?’ that people have always wanted to write, and they were finally able to. So, good for them, I guess.” Never mind that he found the premise simply wrongheaded. “Jo, obviously Harry Potter would not have happened without her, so nothing in my life would have probably happened the way it is without that person. But that doesn’t mean that you owe the things you truly believe to someone else for your entire life.”
Radcliffe offered these carefully weighted reflections in the early months of this year, before Rowling (who declined to comment for this article) newly personalized their disagreements. In the second week of April, Rowling wrote a series of posts on X in response to the publication of a British-government-funded report that notes, as just one of a wide-ranging series of findings, that “for the majority of young people, a medical pathway may not be the best way” to help young people “presenting with gender incongruence or distress”; Rowling touted this as vindication of her views. When one of her supporters replied on X that they were “just waiting for Dan and Emma to give you a very public apology,” further suggesting that Radcliffe and Watson would be safe in the knowledge that Rowling would forgive them, she leaped in: “Not safe, I’m afraid,” she wrote, and characterized them as “celebs who cosied up to a movement intent on eroding women’s hard-won rights.”
In response, Radcliffe told me: “I will continue to support the rights of all LGBTQ people, and have no further comment than that.”"

So he was more than happy to flap his uninformed gums when he thought his ' fans' would support him, but he couldn't offer a ' no comment on something I know nothing about' at the time? He preferred to patronisingly apologise to the ' trans community' on behalf of Rowling and keep his trap shut while she was receiving daily death threats and being doxxed by his fans. Well done Daniel.

theDudesmummy · 01/05/2024 08:19

Inconsequential bleating from Radcliffe.

WomenCantBeBulliedOutOfResistance · 01/05/2024 08:35

"criticized as anti-trans.A few days later, Radcliffe issued a personal statement through the Trevor Project. “I realize that certain press outlets will probably want to paint this as in-fighting between J. K. Rowling and myself me, but that is really not what this is about, nor is it what’s important right now,” he began, before moving on to say: “Transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people and goes against all advice given by professional health care associations who have far more expertise on this subject matter than either Jo or I me.”

Daniel clearly isn't an expert on the correct use of pronouns. Or anything else for that matter.

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