Woman's hour 2nd April 2024 JKR's 'hate' thread

[WarriorN]

First item is the Hate bill and JK's tweets - they did invite her on but haven't heard back yet

For women Scotland will be on too.

So much sunlight. It's brilliant.

The Misogyny Bill. A bill where the ‘belief’ 🙄 that TWAW really comes into its’ own.

She created a list of trans women who had either committed crimes or indulged in behaviour she didn't like

I think she was highlighting behaviours that are/were far worse than the crimes that the hate bill seeks to address, and highlighting how the bill makes a crime of stating facts in relation to these behaviours

I agree with PP - thoroughly sick of seeing this poster on here.
I think we need to make sure he gets no attention - he is enjoying dominating our threads. Can we please try ignoring him ????

I agree he should be ignored and I apologise for responding to him. I'm not on these threads often enough to have realised quite how repetitively disruptive and uninterested in serious responses he is.
Wish I could post in a white font just to let off steam.

I often find myself wondering with @DadJoke whether they're a dad who jokes a lot or a joke of a dad 🤔

Wish I could post in a white font just to let off steam.
and if we pour lemon juice over our screens, we can read it?
That's a vague memory from childhood about invisible writing involving lemon juice or something... ignore me!
It's a tricky one because we don't want to 'shut down debate' and all that, but it's not a debate anyway, is it, there's no genuine engagement.

DadJoke I do actually take your point that we need to be careful not to imply that because some trans people are bad uns, this applies to all trans people. Of course it doesn't. You're right that we shouldn't do that to any group.

However I don't think that's the point JKR is making. I think she's saying, here's a list of trans women who are entering female spaces, prisons, sports, positions, etc to the detriment of female people. The problem isn't that they are trans in itself - the problem is that they are male but wanting to be classed as female.

I think the race equivalent would actually be, if white people started identifying as black and taking their positions and shortlists, that would not be okay and it would be reasonable to call it out.

I think JKR is also pushing things a bit to make the point regarding things she doesn't think should be criminalised, including:

• We shouldn't be criminalised for saying that trans women are male/men
• We shouldn't be criminalised for misgendering (as it happens I personally don't mind using preferred pronouns in general, but I wouldn't refer to a male rapist or murderer as "she", and I have sympathy with people who don't wish to call any male "she")
• We shouldn't be criminalised because someone feels insulted (for example I'm sure India Willoughby will be insulted by JKR's post, but equally India has written some pretty insulting posts herself as well as misgendering another trans woman, and to my mind it's ridiculous to start criminalising either side just for disagreeing on Twitter).

However, it's always good to get another viewpoint so this doesn't become an echo chamber.

And knicker stealer putting it on record that...

🤣😂🙃

Yes, you write in lemon juice and then iron it to make the writing appear? I expect MI5 do this all the time.
One of those ultimately unrewarding activities that my mum used to con us into to get a few minutes peace. Like when she gave us salt to try and pour on birds' tails, assuring us that they then would be unable to fly away.

What?? Who said this?

I would like to applaud DadJoke's work. Satirising TRAs is a dull job, but DJ has really put their heart into it.

Actually I think @DadJoke serves a useful purpose on this board. I, for one, have clarified my position from 'oh, I wonder what all this trans stuff is about' just a short six weeks ago to 'bloody hell, I can't believe what trans activism is doing to women's rights' and @DadJoke has definitely helped me define my position on this, set out the arguments that make logical sense to me, etc. so thanks @DadJoke and everyone else here for creating another fully fledged gender critical feminist.

@Fenlandia 21 mins in here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbcradioo_fourfm?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Unsure if that works, bbc world at one

Oh dear the knickers.

@DisappearingGirl we all know that gender critical people think trans women are men, and that they wish to be free to say that. In the same way, many churches preach in their churches that gay sex is always a sin. They can do so, and whether it's hate speech depends on context.

There are exceptions to free speech laws, but the list of things you've suggested will not get you arrested under hate crime laws, though there are circumstances where you will legitimately lose your job if you insist on misgendering colleagues or clients. It's about context.

Rowling saying "trans women are men, arrest me!" was absolutely predictable, and just eye-rolling. I know she things all trans women are men. This is not news. No one will be arrested for saying things like this.

And she wasn't posting lists of non-trans men, she was posting lists of trans women.

This is aside from the gender critical arguments people are making here trying to defend her. I don't agree with them, but that wasn't my point.

What I objected to was her using the exact same tactics that all bigots use, which is implying that we should remove rights from a protected class because of the behaviour of individuals from that protected class. She did not need those arguments to make her point - the only purpose was to disparage transgender people. It's indefensible, but she can do literally no wrong in the eyes of her gender critical fans.

It would take much work to provide a list of women who had murdered babies, sexually abused children or other women, and used that to attack women as a whole. In fact, this is what MRA Reddit does all the time. It would be entirely wrong.

I agree with everyone on here who, instead of speculating about my character, or engaging where they don't want to, stop piling on these threads and just ignore me. I know it's hard to hear conflicting views, but your point about an echo chamber is well made.

'What I objected to was her using the exact same tactics that all bigots use, which is implying that we should remove rights from a protected class because of the behaviour of individuals from that protected class.'

Which rights are those @DadJoke?

😂😂😂

Ooooh! May-tron!

The problem is that ANYONE can claim to part of the 'oppressed' group of transpeople without being challenged. Imagine the furore if you falsely claimed to being one of the other oppressed groups? Not to mention the chaos.

This law takes away the ability to legitimately challenge someone, who claims to be something they are not in order to gain advantage.

Please can you reply to my earlier post about sport. I would genuinely like your opinion on it.

JKR highlighted that transwomen retain male behaviours. The male behaviours that decent people agreed and put into our laws, that we could have sex segregated spaces where females have a need of privacy dignity and safety.

I wonder what happened to the decency of those that are trying to erase the provisions decent people put in place? 🤔

But it's ok to remove the rights of females? We are also a protected class.

That's all right then. 🙄

Frankly - it's worse. Wearing his sister's knickers, then sneaking them back into her bedroom so she didn't know - eeeeew! 😬

Thank you. I'm not sure that person with the very male voice talking about wearing their sister's underwear at age 4 because "it made them feel female" did themselves many favours. They just sound creepy to me.

Highly pertinent questions. Perhaps they'll be answered on this thread, at long last.