Sara Morrison vs Belfast Film Festival

[NorthernIrishFeminist]

Employers seem to be slow learners when it comes to women's rights! There’s another employment tribunal case being brought by a woman who attended and took the microphone at a Let Women Speak event in Belfast last year and has been treated very badly by her employer Belfast Film Festival as a result.

Looks like we’re going to have to keep gardening until they get the message.

disclaimer. I don’t know Sara and have no connection to BFF I’m just a woman who likes donating to causes that make a difference

From NW

[the Panel has returned]

J I've just gone back and looked at the list of issues. Could I ask you - I'm not sure how much MD is going to be able to assist you with the questions that you're asking. You did say that we have a long time with the case, but that doesn't mean we have..

A reply below NW's last but one tweet says,

Twitchy, because they know Pete is about to arrive.

😂

I was also able to get breakfast during the break (I try to eat between 11 and 7pm).

Just catching up, busy morning,Thank you Myrtle for the valiant TT-ing!

It looks like the judge isn't a fan of NC's style of qq:
'Could I ask you - I'm not sure how much MD is going to be able to assist you with the questions that you're asking. You did say that we have a long time with the case, but that doesn't mean we have..'
sounds like judgespeak for 'Get to the point and get on with it'

From NW

... to fill this so in line with the overriding objective I have an obligation to the 2020 rules
NC yes but the importance of this is that everything flows from whether or not that she was being transphobic so it must be fair to explore what that means and its striking the response from R is when I try to make concrete her understanding so we all know what we are talking about. And so when we talk about TW we know we are talking about men who say they are women.
J well you can put that to the witness - that might be your view and she's entitled to her views.
NC to MD - so let's try to make this concrete - when women in women's services in NI they may encounter men who say they are women
MD transwomen
NC by that we mean the same thing - and it goes further than that doesn't it - a woman might find herself in a situation where she is seeking rape crisis services and find herself in a room with a transwoman
MD I have no idea - I would imagine they are very careful
NC so are transwomen different from women
MD no I am saying they would be compassionate and careful
NC the risk of running a trans-inclusive refuge is that no one can say that a trans inclusive organisation can stop trans women from being a counsellor - it would be a blasphemy
MD blasphemy would be more to do with religion
NC yes people would be shocked
MD she could always refuse
NC exactly - she has a choice - either to be called a bigot and a transphobe if she refuses and then if she agrees she gets taken into a small room with a man to unpack her trauma

NC takes us to SM's job description - encourage participation and attendance. Under engagement and relationships it says "A responsibility to maintain current relationships and build positive new
relationships with the Respondent’s audience, participants and
stakeholders."

NC so part of her job is outreach to marginalised communities - comms who are unable to get their voices heard, communities widely treated with hatred
MD yes
NC and before the first race relations legislation in the UK signs in windows were common "no blacks, no irish no travellers"

... and that was the marginalisation of despised groups.
MD despised is a bit strong
[debate about suitability of the word despised]
NC the bit about marginalised groups in SM's statement - what sort of groups are we talking about
J you can't ask that question
MD read section...

From NW

... 75 of the (??? Act) to find out.
NC it's quite important
J name those communities and put it to MD
NC it's fair that sex realist and gender critical women are marginalised and more so in 2023
MD some of my friends have those views
NC so they can't be marginalised

MD they can
NC so they are marginalised
MD no they're not
NC so they can't be treated with contempt and shunned in polite society
MD no they cannot
[NC takes her to the bundle - MD to Mark Cousins - BFF board member - MC]

Thank you! TT are covering the Good Law Project attempt to get a judicial review of the SC ruling as it applies to toilets but are not allowed to live tweet.

This is a journalist called Nick Wallis who is in the Belfast courtroom.

This is pretty full-on from NC, isn't it?! I hope her strategy works in this context...

From NW

NC Explain this tweet "Barristers met on Monday.
Sara Palin V BFF. Hearing
date to be set soon x"
NC who is Sara Palin
MD the Claimant
NC why call her that
MD it's a joke
NC explain the joke
MD they are both larger than life characters

NC so the only sim you are alluding to is that they are both loud ebullient characters
MD says something I didn't hear which she apologises for as it was a joke
J tribunal is not a place for humour
NC what else do you know about SP
MD she's kinda wacky
NC what else
MD she has right wing opinions
NC and that's what you were really saying wasn't it
MD no

From NW

MD no no I wasn't
NC and gender critical people are quite often smeared as far right
MD some of you are
NC and you were joining in
MD i was making a joke
NC about?
MD the ebullient nature and blustery personality type [of SM], yes

[we go to a new part of the bundle]

From NW

NC this a tweet from Derry anti-fascists "This Sunday, Posie Parker is bringing her hatefest to
Belfast. Local transphobes and the far right are likely
to be in attendance and we intend to make our voices
heard.
There can be no platform for bigotry, fascism, or
transphobia in our city."
NC that's a smearing of GC opinions as part of the far right
MD "smearing is a word I'd never use, but if that's your view I wouldn't disagree with it"

NC is going to a few tweets "we encourage everyone to attend this
other event - SONGS FOR SOLIDARITY - set up
by a collective of Activists, Unions, LGBTQIA+ &
Women’s Sector ergs. It will be a positive & joyful
rebuke to any oppressive negativity happening in
the city."

This one from: Seven Pound Sadie Suggs She/Her W.
"Graham Linehan says he will be there
Bring tomato soup and stepladders - he's a
6'5" adult baby"
NC do you know the tomato soup ref?
MD no
NC [explains]
MD I knew nothing about it

NC and gender critical people are quite often smeared as far right
MD some of you are

'Some of YOU are' - so NC is GC and potentially not objective, is that what MD is at?
A bit unusual to address a barrister like that, isn't it? as part of 'you people'?

From NW

Lee Hurley says "Lee Hurley @HLeeHurLey - 25m
Posie Parker has changed the location of her
demo in Belfast. I imagine she does not have
permission for here either."

MD "smearing is a word I'd never use, but if that's your view I wouldn't disagree with it"
'your view' - NC's personal views again

From NW

Karl Hayden says: "Posies Parker organisers are complaining about the
music and chants drowning out their event. Then
coming over and trying to tell pro-trans supporters
where they can stand."

Bolshie Bish "Who's driving 4.5 hours up to Belfast Sunday just
to tell a transphobe to go fxck herself, and then
driving 4.5 hours home??"
MD I'm seeing all this for the first time
NC having seen them, would you say GC people were a pretty marginalised group
MD possibly yes

From NW

NC SM attended the event in her personal capacity. If she wore a BFF t-shirt, why would that have not been a legitimate piece of outreach as part of her job
MD the way to do it is discuss it and make a plan etc
NC assuming relevant permissions have been got, wouldn't it be...

From NW

... the right thing to do to make friends with people from marginalised communities.
MD that's not the way we do things. We're a film festival

The 'Sara Palin' reference was significant, wasn't it? I doubt if anyone believed it was because they 'are both big personalities' and not that they were calling SM right wing.
Typically, NC just left that hanging and moved on..

From NW

[we go to par 11 of MD's statement]
"This conversation happened on 13 April 2024, when I was comforting the Claimant and
making sure she was ok. My tone was one of care and compassion towards the
claimant. The Claimant has alleged that I asked whether she would share a toilet with
a transgender woman. This is completely untrue and taken out of context from a
broader conversation. As her Line Manager, I was aware of the Claimant's gender
critical views and out of concern for her welfare. I wanted to make her aware that we
had gender neutral toilet facilities in the Beanbag Cinema. I wanted to make sure the
Claimant was comfortable working there. I absolutely did not ask her would she "share
a toilet with a trans woman". In the same way, it is correct that I asked the Claimant...

... whether she would be happy to work on the Kabosh Trans Project, all out of concern
as to whether she would feel comfortable doing so."
NC you had a private meeting with SM
MD marie lyndsey was there and moyra lock was in and out
NC you asked her if she would ever share a toilet with a transwoman

... the right thing to do to make friends with people from marginalised communities.
MD that's not the way we do things. We're a film festival

But isn't outreach to marginalised communities part of SM's job - or somebody at the BFF anyway - so disingenuous to say the least by MD

No, not THAT marginalised community! 😡

From NW

MD I didn't say that... it's out of context
NC which is it
MD I was telling her about our gender neutral toilets in the building and trying to understand if Sm had a problem with that
so you did ask her
MD I said technically speaking anyone could use the toilets and was she comfortable with that
NC so you did have the convo
MD I didn't say those exact words
NC and she asked you in a convo if male people had the right to change in front of young girls

MD she asked me if my young daughter saw a male changing in a changing room whether I'd be okay with that
NC and it was part of the conversation you were having
MD it was like a gut punch, when she said that bringing my daughter into the conversation like that and painting the

From NW

... picture involving my daughter. It was very challenging.
NC so when she raised the matter of your daughter in a changing room
MD inappropriately so
NC was the subject matter inappropriate or raising the subject of your daughter
MD it could have been said better

MD it was like a gut punch, when she said that bringing my daughter into the conversation like that
Yeah right🙄

MD it was like a gut punch, when she said that bringing my daughter into the conversation like that and painting the ... picture involving my daughter. It was very challenging.

I think MD is a Terf when it comes to the thought of her daughter sharing a changing room with a man identifying as a woman ...