Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

i already said in an earlier post, i am not supporting them doing that as that in itself is a red flag for me.....if someone thinks that their right to expose their penis is stronger than a child's right not to be exposed to a penis in a womens changing room then i do not think they should be in a single sex space.

The thought that "Kate" has a daughter makes me feel ill. I hope it is just more male gaslighting.

i'm not sure this is true is it? transwomen who are transitioning or have transitioned are not the same as men who enjoy cross dressing or have a sexual fetish ....this is very like how gay men were historically treated ,with the presumption that they are all predatory or paedophiles.

and how does one tell the difference?

tbh I actually don’t care anyway. I don’t care if a man is “transitioning” whatever that even means or is getting his rocks off by wearing women’s clothes. I really couldn’t give af. Both of them are men, neither of them belong in women’s single sex spaces. It’s not just about safety it’s about women’s privacy & dignity. Women are not support humans for troubled men

If a woman objects to a male in a female space, then why does the man's desire to be in the space with her over ride her desire to have a man-free space?

Oh yes.
I forgot about OLTS.
Well done.

And well done Dad for looking out for your kids. It exhausting but oh so important. After all, we are a part of creating the society we want.

I'd also like to thank CalMeKate for offering such great examples of the arguments that have got us to this point, where girls are expected to tolerate naked adult males in their changing rooms.

Gosh. Wishing death on people who disagree with us - IW has got womanhood down to a T.

Ah yes, the old You’ll Be Dead Soon Anyway Chestnut.
Adorable.

Wrong! That’s Stonewall Law - aka made up crap. Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic (PC) and it’s there to make sure trans people aren’t discriminated against in, for example, getting a job or accessing social housing or whatever. Trans people are also protected under the PC of Sex. To be clear, that’s their biological sex. Two males, one a TW, one not, must be treated in the same way.

The Equality Act allows for Single Sex Exemptions. This is to protect single sex spaces. Nothing in the EA gives a male person the right to enter Female Only facilities. No male person - not TW, not gay men, not feminine men, not old men.

@BelfastDadof3 thank you for standing up for your kids and by extension other kids. I understand the stress of doing that and the desire to step away from the maelstrom it brings up. One thing though, please don't ask for the thread to be deleted. Things are changing inch by painful inch in the UK because women are saying no to this. Many many women committing time to standing up for women and children's rights that could/should have been put to better use. These discussions are essential. Please leave them to stand as the important historical testament that they are.

It’s fascinating that people like @CalMeKate are so keen to enable grown men to get their cocks out in front of women and little girls.

i havent said that either - i think women do have the right to demand single sex spaces and the OP is absolutely correct in complaining to the gym. However i'm not personally an absolutist and having worked with people with gender dysphoria I'm not going to put all transpeople in the same boat...there are transpeople out there who are capable of empathy and recognise that many women are coming from a place of fear.

Okay let’s take a step right back to collectively discuss this;

Do you believe that people can identify as a gender different to the one they were born as?

Why do we have to come from a "place of fear"?

Privacy and dignity are valid enough reasons for single sex exemptions.

We are born one of two sexes.

No one is born a "gender" though are they, as that's a social construct.

People can identify as whatever they like - a cat, a teapot, napoleon bonaprte but it doesn’t make them any of those things. A man can identify as a woman until the cows come home - still a man and an always will be.

Fabulous!

<Gets popcorn> 🍿

Also lol at the idea of collectively discussing this as if that’s a new idea and women (and the men) on this board haven’t been discussing this for years!

Let's take another step back.

What's a gender?

I identify as a humpback whale.

@BreatheAndFocus well said!

The idea that @CalMeKate is arguing the right of an adult to expose a penis in front of children in a female changing room trumps the girls’ right to safeguarding is sickening.

@CalMeKate let’s take a step right back. Do you think children have a right to be safeguarded against adults exposing themselves indecently?

And giving us the the Laurie Penny "teach your daughters to look away" line.

It's just so complicated isn't it? How on earth could we prevent girls from seeing penises in the women's changing area? I simply can't, with my tiny lady brain, think of a way that this could be achieved.