Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

When you have the meeting make sure you say that you are aware Bannatynes policy is the female changing rooms are strictly single SEX and that Duncan reinforced this only this month.

Yes, Northern Ireland, I dread what our legislation is but I doubt it would be seen as progressive. Which might be a good thing.

Complain. This is not acceptable. Always bring it back to the safe space for ur daughters. I understand what you mean re being seen as transphobe. I am a teacher and feel.like I am.treadung on eggshells if this is brought up with pupils. I can tell you thst all the y7 girls who have discussed this with me,want preserved sungle-sex spaces, as do I. I do agree that,sadly,women are more likely to be ignored,when expressing this worry, than men. Good luck OP

Surely then, single access cubicles / showers need to be in place.

I honestly didn't think this was so mental.

Gender neutral showers. What!

Summary of legislation applicable in NI is here:

https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/equalities/equality-law/equality-law-in-northern-ireland.html#:~:text=Northern%20Ireland%20Equalities,consolidated%20into%20one%20single%20act.

Thanks everyone.
I'm going to have a very gentle conversation with my daughters when they are up. Get them to tell me exactly what they saw and when. How they felt etc.
Then go to Bannatynes. I've tried to follow Duncan Bannatynes on twitter to screenshot his tweet but his tweets are protected.

Ill report back.

A man has knowingly and repeatedly exposed himself to your children. I wonder how many other girls have had to see his dick, or “hide” (your word) in the disabled cubicle in order not to see it?

I’m really sorry your daughters had to experience that. I’d “go ballistic”, in your shoes.

@BelfastDadof3 I follow Duncan so I will screenshot it.

Op the only thing I would like to add please is I don’t think you should ask your girls anymore questions at this point - they have clearly indicated to you what they saw and you have enough information to raise it. From my experience with teens you might make it play on their mind more. Better to talk to management and find a way forward. Personally I would not mention to them you spoke to management as this might ride different emotions in them - kids don’t like to get other people into trouble. But I would at some point sit down with them and explain it’s not ok if a man is having his penis out around them they are entitled to a safe female space and shouldn’t be feeling like they have to move and let you know if it happens again.

She most likely identifies as female and is therefore in the correct changing room. Yes the changing rooms are single sex but if you identify as female and have a penis then you are going to use the female changing room.

I work with child safeguarding and 93-95% of child are abused by someone they know. 1 in 9 girls (terrifyingly high) although I suspect higher as many don’t report.

The best way you can keep your child safe is by encouraging them to have strong boundaries, knowing the difference between “stranger danger” and “strange behaviour”.

If your daughters feel safer and more comfortable going in to the cubicle that is their choice and I would encourage them to continue to make choices THEY are comfortable with. They are both going to make many many decisions throughout their life and adapt their actions and behaviours so they feel safe (which is the reality of girlhood and womenhood).

All of our children are growing up in a world with transpeople and I would continue to have ongoing conversations and trans people in their orbit. Maybe start by correcting the language from tranniemannie to transwomen.

Also what do you want the outcome to be today when you go to the gym and speak to them? Do you want the transwomen banned from the female changing rooms? Do you want all people with penis’ to change in the male changing rooms? What if this was at school and a trans girl got ready in their school changing rooms? How would you approach this situation? I am
not asking you to challenge you I am just genuinely curious as to what you want the outcome to be.

Refusing to let your girls have Snapchat is fair more likely to keep them safe.

Good luck!

I can’t imagine how your poor girls feel. They may even laugh it off now but that doesn’t mean they find it funny. Luckily they have each other bless them.

Yes, lucky they have each other but I imagine there have been other girls and women not so lucky. Trapped in a changing room with a large, naked man (who identifies as a woman) and unable to object for fear of the TRA mob and.

Your girls need you to advocate for them, please do go and raise this, both at the gym and everywhere else. Like others, I'm shocked that this stuff is so normalised that they only mentioned it in passing.

I'm only learning about how to navigate this new world but it's important you use the word sex not gender in this conversation with the management.

OP I am.wondering if this might be wirth mentioning to their schools once tbis has been resolved,hopefully to your satisfaction in case they mention it to staff?

Some screenshots

More screenshots

@CalMeKate Are you saying that these children should be encouraged to put the wishes of the “tranniemannie” first?

Why can’t they use their own words to describe this man? He’s not a woman - they’ve seen his penis! - so TW is a confusing term for them.

Do you really work in child safeguarding? Because I don’t get the impression that you consider children’s safety and wellbeing the number one priority in all circumstances.

Penises belong in the male changing room.
Stop gaslighting our children.

@CalMeKate "Also what do you want the outcome to be today when you go to the gym and speak to them? Do you want the transwomen banned from the female changing rooms? Do you want all people with penis’ to change in the male changing rooms? "

Yes.

I want all people with Penis' to change in the male changing room. To expand that I also want them to compete in male sports, reside in male prison estates, not insist on delivering female intimate care where the patient has specified they want a female carer,........

A TW's desire to be validated in their chosen gender does not negate my right to chose to not be naked in front of a male I don't know. It does not negate my right to not see the genitals of a man I don't know, and it does not negate all of the many reasons that throughout the years it has been deemed a safeguarding essential to prevent males having access to females in locations and situations where females are more vulnerable.

That was to @CalMeKate

@FatAgainItsLettuceTime well said and perfectly put.
No males in female changing rooms, toilets, prisons, sports, or providing intimate care where female provision has been requested.

@CalMeKate

Quote:
‘(The person who is exposing a penis to young girls) most likely identifies as female and is therefore in the correct changing room. Yes the changing rooms are single sex but if you identify as female and have a penis then you are going to use the female changing room.

I work with child safeguarding ……’

I really , really, hope this isn’t true.

“People with penises” - we have a more concise way of referring to these people: men.

If u have a penis. If u are a biological male you should be in maje changing room as in if you are biologically female you should be in female changing room.

There is nothing wrong with women walking about naked in the womens changing rooms and men in the mens. I quite frequently have my towel on my head and walk from shower to locker - because that is the womens area and we all have the same parts. If you don’t like it, don’t look!
But NO WAY should there be any penises in the womens space or vaginas in the mens, regardless of the orientation of the person. No way no way no way.

I'm appalled that you work in safeguarding.

Male bodies should NOT be in single sex changing rooms