Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

Emma Roddick - a young man did have his identity challneged in the Scot parl moments ago .. would you agree that is wrong?

What’s Roddick on about and why is it relevant?

Shona - no idea what you're talking about but okay [paraphrase]

😂

I suspect that was an aside to her pals on Twitter or something, clealry something not related to the actual business being discussed

SR - minimum age of 16.5 would be confusing. Retrospective declaration that they've been living in their acquired gender for 6 months.

JB - what safeguarding would there be?

SR - they can only apply from 16, safeguards are there making sure they understand the process [how?] and they are able to say what support they'v e received and from whom. Listening to young trans people - they feel excluded from the gender recognition process - colleges and Unis asking for particular documentation - young peopel say they want to 'get on with their life' with all their documentation supporting who they are.

It goes against absolutely everything in the UNCRC, except the much fetishised articles 12 and 13 (of which the Scottish government are very fond).

Internationally there is enormous and unusual levels of agreement that childhood is 0-18. The UK is an anomaly (and a deeply problematic one) for allowing children into the armed forces. Scotland is an anomaly for thinking child marriage is a good idea.

maybe Maggie chapman thinks we should be arming 6 year olds too. Or younger. After all, they like to identify as soldiers sometimes. And play at getting married for that matter.

16 aligns with age of legal capacity in Scots Law.

sorry, that was quoting SRobinson, not responding to you, Yummy!

Bill includes provision for a GRC to be refused on grounds of incapacity.

'Sherriff would have ability to make further enquries and look for evidence if they have concerns about capacity.

Can't support amendment that support must be from someone qualified - in many cases support best comes from family member'

"Young man having his identity challenged"
Was that supposedly Ash giving testimony from a mother with an autistic daughter?
'My 15 yo daughter is on AS. Strugles with anxiety and dpression. No signs of GD before 12, currently IDS as male. Influenced by social media'
A mother calling her daughter ...her daughter.

‘The government is confused about the definition of a child’

yes they are

Rachel Hamilton - alllowing children to apply for a GRC - as with so much - abundance of unanswered questions.
Gov cannot explain why CAss review has no relevance.

Cannot confirm they will not attempt to lower age further
Holes in this Bill are glaring.

Conversations about safeguarding is an admission Members are concerned.

Significant points raised.

Maggie Chapman intervenes. Does Rachel Hamilton think it's worng to weaponise ND people and say they are incapable of makign decisions. Much roaring.

Disgraceful tone says Rachel [I agree]

RH - if we don't have a robust debate we cannot make good legislation

Daniel Johnson - as a ND person it's incredibly important we think thorugh this very carefully

RH - please don't ever intervene in that manner again Maggie Chapman. RH has a family member who is ND and it's v upsetting.

RH not accepting another intervention from Maggie CHapman

RH - 2/3 of public disagree with lowering age.

Maggie Chapman is a disgrace. How dare she try and stop RH from speaking. This is a familiar tactic from TRAs. We see you MC.

Voting now. Suspended for 5.

Maggie Chapman should have an official complaint made, she's an utter disgrace.

Not having an upper house is a big issue. At least the House of Lords can punt things back to Westminster. Don’t most other countries have 2 layers of government?

The Maggie Chapman intervention, hope this works:
www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-december-20-2022?clip_start=16:52:16&clip_end=16:54:00

I assumed you were quoting some idiot in the Scottish government.

sigh. It’s so depressing.

Tbh, the children’s (participation) rights crowd in activism and academia tend to be as blindly and uncritically ideologically driven as the gender ideologues. They’ve come together in the Scottish parliament to create this shitstorm.

They’re not truly a children’s rights crowd, because they are merely obsessed with participation. Safeguarding and acting in the best interests of the child are not topics they care much about. Just that we should listen to children and do what they say. Do not, under any circumstances, imply that children might not actually know enough or have the cognitive capacity to make good choices. That is actual sacrilege.

Holy fuck, look at that expression! Honestly that woman worries me. Thanks for the clip, I was typing so missed the visuals!

YY, I've had that impression before, Yummy. 'Give the children whatever they want' isn't generally the best approach, but the Scotgov seem keen on it.