Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

'Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike' I think @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus 😁

Thank you! That's it, I knew there was a reason I kept being reminded of adrenal glands (it's Portrait of Addison and I was thinking of Addison's disease which is unrelated).

www.bartleby.com/371/431.html

D'oh, I'm struggling to remember it. I think someone said he had rolled out the same quote before, the first time they had been impressed but the second decided it was perhaps the only one he knew. It wasn't the line about "he is wiser today than he was yesterday", was it?

That's what I get for replying before reaching the end of the thread. Yes, Lipbalm is correct, of course!

Just reminiscing about the good old days of logging in to the tribunal on a Monday morning and waiting for the conference host to join.

I miss the bantz.

I do, too @IdisagreeMrHochhauser

I miss it so much. I check every day in the hope that there will have been a post about something - anything. I could have cried with relief hen I saw your little offering.

I wonder if there is somebody else we could be supporting in the meantime - of course, it's the drama of the courtroom that brings out the very worst best in us all.

*when, not hen

Note to self: PROOFREAD

I just presumed you were Scots and affectionate!

There's Jo Phoenix's 15 day case in October 2023. That's a long time to wait but she needs help digging in the meantime (and by comparison with other recent cases and at that length, I expect the total needed will rise again). Googling Jo Phoenix crowdfunder takes you there.

Maya won, we await Allison's result - is there a possibility that the other side has to pay costs, in employment tribunals, does anyone know? Would be nice to be able to recycle some of this money that shouldn't have been needed in the first place - though in case any of our monitors are hoping I don't mean I think we'll get so tired as to stop supporting such cases! I've mentally turned "support women's rights" into a budget line now instead of thinking of each case as a one off, and will keep it there for ever now I guess.

is there a possibility that the other side has to pay costs, in employment tribunals, does anyone know? Would be nice to be able to recycle some of this money that shouldn't have been needed in the first place

Usually no, is my understanding for Q1. They'd have to have done something very much out of the run of normal incompetence or egregiousness to have to pay costs in full.

We need a central fighting fund. We don't need excesses donated anywhere outside the ecosystem of women's legal support.

We also need the EHRC to step-up as a joined party or the primary claimant in some of the cases that are coming up.

Isn't there are Canadian nurse, ? Hamm, I'm not sure when her case is due but I've a feeling it's in the near future.

It's great that supporters of women have raised and are raising these massive amounts of money. But, feck me, it should have been unnecessary. Imagine the other good that could have been done with it. Other good causes, trans causes or something the contributor could have bought to make their own life sweeter in a different way.

It's brilliant but it's bittersweet.

😂

We need a central fighting fund. We don't need excesses donated anywhere outside the ecosystem of women's legal support.

We also need the EHRC to step-up as a joined party or the primary claimant in some of the cases that are coming up.

I agree @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus* - an ongoing fighting fund would be such a relief to many women - and could probably be supported by direct debit - moat of us could manage a couple of quid a month. There could still be crowdfunding if necessary, but it would provide the cash to at least get counsel's opinion on the legal position, and begin an acton the appropriate.

And having the EJRC would lend so much heft to any action.

D'oh - Jo Phoenix's case is next year?! I missed that minor detail, and was looking forward to it in a couple of months.

There's also @IamSarah to support - when does her case start?

Sorry wims, question about Maya, so possibly not the right thread, does anyone know if the date for the 'Remedies for the discrimination' hearing has been set, or how long it normally takes after ETs to make the decision on damages?

I don't think so. I don't recall how long the decision period is for CGD to decide if they're going to appeal. Maugham is making noises about appealing it although I've no idea on what grounds or with what standing but it's not as if the GLP doesn't have access to relative oceans of money.

I don't think so. I don't recall how long the decision period is for CGD to decide if they're going to appeal.

They have until 17 August, I think.

I say this so often about Jo Maugham, but what does Maya's case have to do with him??
Why is he sticking his oar in?

I miss you all too.

I don't think we will be able to watch Sarah's case as she has understandably been granted anonymity.

The next one I know of is Rachel Meade vs Social Work England ET starting on 1st December 2022. She is a social worker who had questions about reforming the GRA and as a result could lose her job. As ever, she is also in need of some gardening.

James Essese (I think I have his surname wrong but starts with E) - when is his case?

For Women Scotland are going back to court again with the Scottish Government.

Does Rachel M have a professional hearing with Social Work England before then? In October? (Not sure about the date.)

James Essese (I think I have his surname wrong but starts with E) - when is his case?

James Esses—interesting to note that he and Rachel M have an opposing barrister in common—there needs to be a ruling on the parties (topic of the last hearing) before there is a scheduling arrangement, I think.

Whilst we were able to get through all of the evidence, including my own cross-examination, we ran out of time for closing submissions. As a result, the judge decided that these should be submitted in writing between now and the 18th July. After this point, he will consider all of the evidence and provide written judgment on the issues. This may take some months.

A Case Management Hearing has been scheduled for the 20th October for the purposes of setting dates and directions for the main trial itself.

I believe he is related to a person with a trans identity or whatever the Stonewall approved terminology is these days.

Thanks Eresh.

I thought the Fox-Batterer just saw a very lucrative cash cow - I didn't realise he had a personal interest.