Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

What I've had to eat today: two tinned tomatoes, one midget piece of stale, toasted sourdough, five green olives. White rice for later. Might push the boat out and add some grated carrot. <cries>

Thanks for the British Museum info - have just signed up to the newsletter. I daresay @Boiledbeetle and I may pop along in our matching sedan chairs to see the exhibition.

Thank you - will definitely be giving these a go, too.

Erm.... Isn't it little people these days? I'm surprised you managed a whole one though! Especially on top of the five olives.

As it's such a special occasion I'm currently thinking of which pair of pjs and crocs to wear as I don't think I've actually got any real clothes these days. I mean I used to need them for the odd time I had a medical appointment but as they've all been by fone for what seems years I haven't actually needed to wear clothes since February 2020!

I will see you both at the exhibition @SpindleSheWrote - I have signed up, too. My sedan chair is under construction even as I type, and incorporates a gin cupboard and an amaretti biscuit tin.

Is there a tea room, do you know, with really nice china cups, and possibly scones?

Any mums netter worth her salt could feed a family of five (plus a large dog) for at least 3 days on what @SpindleSheWrote has consumed/intends to consume in less than 12 hours, @Boiledbeetle .

I am not one to judge, however . . .

<devours multipack of Twixes (for medicinal purposes only, obviously)>

Interesting how this presages the last few weeks.

On a quick reading through, I can see why Stonewall changed their barrister! Here they have Robin White who gets short shrift; eg, as the judge comments, makes applications with no supporting evidence (para 8), and later makes a point about Stonewall's position which the judge says he does not accept - 'quite the reverse in fact'.

What a shower.

I'm thinking of going for this design. I wouldn't want to make too much of a fuss and be the talk of Bloomsbury.

@SpindleSheWrote I don't like tinned tomatoes, always looks like somebody has peeled a small animal.
I missed the reference to the rhubarb tart song, coming down from biscuits and Columbo. I'll have a look.

Isn't it ironic, @Mmmnotsure, how many times we've been lectured on here about legal matters by the non-support robin?

Gosh gosh gosh
finally read the Times article supplied by McDuffy.
oh gosh.

late as usual, but oh my gosh.
that did wipe the floor with the GCC 😱

well.
after Ricky Gervais, Bill Maher, the two Helens video commenting the court case, the court case and this article it does seem like the madness might be tapering off. A tad. Just a smidgen.

would celebrate with biscotti, if I had any. Does Kit Kat or Wagon Wheel qualify as biscuits, or are they more on the chocolate- masquerading -as -buiscuits side?

this is not a euphemism for anything, it is a genuine question!

Also, I am a very small person and I accept being called a midget.
in fact, my tall lads remind me of my midget size every day.

how? How can they be so big when I am so small?

genetics, I know. But still.

I can see why Stonewall changed their barrister! Here they have Robin White who gets short shrift; eg, as the judge comments, makes applications with no supporting evidence (para 8), and later makes a point about Stonewall's position which the judge says he does not accept - 'quite the reverse in fact'.

To be fair, it seems Stonewall decided to retain RMW's services which was plausibly wise as they'd have wanted an anchor figure with familiarity with some of the details of the long drawn out case. I should think Stonewall expected this familiarity would translate into useful competence in re: the organisation of the bundle and establishing an agreed chronology.

Para 8: Ms White on behalf of the First Respondent made an application for the
anonymisation / redaction from the bundle for the hearing of the names of
three individual members of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group (STAG)…The application was made without supporting evidence…

Para 9: The Claimant resisted that application on the basis that a key issue in this case is how Stonewall influenced the actions of the Chambers/Service Company…

Para 10: I [Judge Stout] refused [Ms White's] application for reasons which I gave orally at the hearing and set out below.

Yes, paragraph 52 on pg 19 is very helpful on the second point about Stonewall's position.

I do not accept that Ms White’s point about whether Stonewall is in a position
to commit a basic contravention of the Act against Chambers for the purposes
of s 111(7) comes anywhere near rendering the Claimant’s claim unarguable.
Quite the reverse in fact. There is nothing in the Act to suggest there is some
sort of threshold for this purpose: if there is a service provision relationship
between Stonewall and Chambers (which is not in dispute) that would be
caught by s 29 of the EA 2010 if Stonewall discriminated against Chambers
and that suffices in my judgment.

That was a difficult hearing to sit through for the last two weeks and I'm sure that RMW and IO were of great mutual support to each other during the proceedings.

Spindle Yes. I suspect self-awareness is not their greatest characteristic.

Hadrosaurus I should have said changing their lead barrister. I absolutely take your point about retaining someone who was familiar with the case, and thus able and well placed to produce a competent, professional bundle.

Interesting that Employment Judge Stout wrote in February 2021 that trans issues were the subject of much public discussion (I paraphrase here). Yet politicians and Jeremy Vine are only just now picking up on it.

Curious.

the non-support robin

😂😂😂

Hmpfh! I go for a cat enforced nap and you!!! You're off sorting out designs and and Ooh my old life could be handy....may I assist you in the coordination of your design effort madam? Make sure all trades are working to the same drawing. Check out the work pheasants aren't slacking off??

Of course I will be bringing my support cat with me!

<devours multipack of Twixes (for medicinal purposes only, obviously)>
@Emotionalsupportviper

I am impressed with your ability to just shut up and take your medicine! It must have been so difficult for you. I admire your fortitude!

I popped into Lidl this afternoon, and saw this, which reminded me of this thread

But do you accept being eaten by@SpindleSheWrote for lunch?

Today I've made a start on losing weight. Had salad & fresh fruit for lunch, & then DH said there was a packet of orange chocolate cookies in the cupboard. I said I had them this week, & he said no, there's another one - !!!

These are Tesco blood orange marmalade & dark chocolate cookies. Once I knew they were there I couldn't resist starting them, so that's the diet gone for today, but I can at least recommend them to you all. Except our dear friend who's living on a bowl of plain rice. Sorry about that.

Here they have Robin White who gets short shrift; eg, as the judge comments, makes applications with no supporting evidence (para 8), and later makes a point about Stonewall's position which the judge says he does not accept - 'quite the reverse in fact'.

Acceptance without evidence exception did not work for RW in this instance.

This is Judge Holly Stout, yes, of the chambers 11 KBW?

I was very tempted by a packet of those self same tesco biscuits earlier today. Much to my surprise I did manage to resist them. Probably because, despite my best efforts yesterday, I've still got a cupboard full of border.

I was kept company by a robin in the garden earlier this afternoon, gave it some support mealworms. Mr fella was complaining it wasn't tamer. He said our garden was a safe space and we wouldn't hurt it. But he wasn't surprised the robin couldn't tell the difference. He gets it when it's birds!

I want a mini-fridge in my sedan chair, and wi-fi. It will be carried by two of the Hemsworth brothers, with the third in reserve.

Seriously: can we have a meet-up?

Roll on Friday discussion forum seems to confirm it's Judge Holly Stout of Chambers 11 KBW.

www.rollonfriday.com/discussion/allison-baileys-case-against-stonewall-and-garden-court-chambers-started-today