Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

@Boiledbeetle, we need us a Charabanc of Decrepitude to take us to London. We shall each have a chaise longue, mini-fridge and sedan chair.

If you're into the soft amaretti-type biscuits, I can highly, highly recommend making these:

using Nutella as the filling

I get those cat hair clumps that have to be cut off too. A large furry cat with delicate skin who refuses to be brushed despite me telling him it's for his own benefit. Then we both suffer the shame of a partially bald cat until it all grows back.

I throw them away though. No way I'm keeping a terrifying clump of cat hair!

Just had a look at the clip, that is stunning, for all the mess its surprisingly calm! Oh to be well enough to see it in person!

I'm so sorry that you can't. There's a Hew Locke Procession installation on in the same venue (free of charge) and that's well worth several visits just to see it under different light conditions and to purposefully nip in and out of different rooms to have a variety of framed perspectives on it. (That sounds nonsense but the installation has 150 figures or so and passes by a number of gallery rooms so you can walk round the Procession and then go and see the intentional framing of bits of it from the rooms.) I notice new details every time because the light picks out different colours or I belatedly notice a repeat motif.

www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/hew-locke

After the surreal rhetoric of so many of GCC's QCs during this tribunal, it was rather calming and celebratory to be able to visit these exuberant works and to be introduced to the wonderful mind and vision of Cornelia Parker and Hew Locke and to have glimpses of the curiosity and world view of such artists.

I had a Baci di Dama yesterday from the Italian cafe near me! The Nutella had gone all gooey and delicious.

Gazing into distance, wondering it's a bit too much to go in today as well....

They also do Torta Della Nonna which is drool inducing.

I think the process of joining should be more rigorous. I turned off my camera and microphone, and I think everyone should have to do that.

They should remind you that it's a formal proceeding before you join; anyone with a stupid name is kicked out and not let back; anyone who doesn't turn microphone and camera off is booted.

I thought far too much of the judge's time was wasted in being diplomatic with people who were behaving like morons.

Deffo trying these!

I thought far too much of the judge's time was wasted in being diplomatic with people who were behaving like morons.

I know, but they're entitled to a fair hearing as the defendants.

You're thinking, as many people still do, that transgender very broadly means 'wanting to be the opposite sex', and that sex means what body you have.

So there are definitely plenty of transgender people in that boat, who believe that male people have penises and women have breasts, and if you are one sex but want to be the other to the extent that you want to physically change your body you are transgender.

However the new definition of transgender is that everyone has a gender identity, which both is and isn't the same as sex, and if you believe male people have penises and women have breasts you are transphobic, because the gender identity is a feeling inside and completely irrelevant to which sex your body is, except your sex is now whatever your gender identity is, and gender is kind of about femininity and masculinity which apparently have a very strong relation to which sex you are, even though that's clearly regressive bollocks.

So you can be born female but have always been a boy/man because that innate gender identity was always there in you. What man/woman mean in terms of gender identity is very unclear and people insisting that we replace our current definitions of man=male and woman=female refuse to say what the new definition is, because they either don't know or don't want to say because it relies on the cultural classifications of feminity and masculinity.

😂

I agree. Neither the satisfying crunch of a biscuit or the deliciousness of cake, and a very thin layer of bitter chocolate. M&S extremely chocolatey orange please.

@SpindleSheWrote a mini fridge you say. No doubt packed with support goodies that require chilling!!! Like your style.

😂😂😂

Don't know if I'll get to London this year, I think the British Museum is having an exhibition about women/female depiction from its collection. I don't remember the write up had much genderwoo except the usual about Kwanyin (sp.) being gender fluid.

Reminds me of

Yes, it's this one.

www.britishmuseum.org/exhibitions/feminine-power

One of the upsides of the pandemic was the number of galleries and museums that uploaded guided video tours of the art and exhibitions. I wish more had retained that public service.

Open Justice. Open Access to art. Both of them contribute to society.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus Yes, they had daily tweets as well about specific items in their collections. Really interesting, places that I'd never get to visit from all around the world. Amusing too, when they got competitive. And so many rabbitholes to explore.

I don’t,ike Jaffa cakes either. In fact, I hate them so much that only fig rolls are below them in the hierarchy of biscuityness.
But I like you lot.

@Emotionalsupportviper this is a v straightforward recipe for the crunchy amaretti. Thinking about it, I suppose they’re really mini versions of what we knew as macaroons, in my childhood crisp amaretti

@needmoresleep Great post.

Thanks to all the posters for the excellent discussions before during and after the case.
Alison I really don't think anyone else could've handled this process as well as you. I was horrified by the atmosphere that you must have been working in.
Thank you for seeing it through . I hope you get the result you want.

I can't remember if anyone has already put this on these threads. But I thought it was interesting.

It's the preliminary judgement from Judge Stout in Feb 2021.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/603670b4d3bf7f0ab2f070b3/Ms_A_Bailey_-v-Stonewall_Equality_Limited___others_2202172_2020-_preliminary_judgment.pdf

An excellent gag! 😂 👏

Thank you! I love nonsense, and I'd missed that one!

Have just googled recipes.
Ok I'm currently out of the ingredients but when I get my fat arse up eventually get moving I will give these a go. Looks incredibly easy. I'm a big fan of easy recipes. I have a book named 3 and 4 ingredient recipes and use it all the time often.

Love these threads when the big drama is over, always useful ideas and witticisms galore.

😂😂😂