Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 15

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhause

r QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC (teehee)
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To come:

Stop saying Yup! when someone is reading something!

AH is taking her to the case about trans and sex offender stats in prison.

I'm getting Jackie Weaver flashbacks at the phrase "Do you have the authority" 😁

The idea that 'male-bodied' is transphobic or somehow illegitimate to say takes us to the heart of the issue of the narrowing range of speech. First, people couldn't say 'man', because it was asserted that 'man' and 'woman' were constructs. Then, they were told they couldn't say 'male', because it was asserted that 'male' and 'female' were identities. Then, when they attempted to differentiate their speech from that idea and refer only to the body, they were told that was deeply offensive, because a woman's body must, by logical extrapolation, be the body of a woman and therefore female, so it's a female penis.

Then my head fell off.

For anyone who wants to lose more of their spare time:

www.bailii.org/

'Stop saying Yup! when someone is reading something!'

So rude and off-putting.

Ah MB is unaware of any GC views but is fully aware of a hearing saying trans prisoners can be in with women

Isn't AH making the GC case for us here with the obscurity around prison stats?

British and Irish Legal Institute. Baili. Repository of all legal decisions. (Up till now - now moving to National Archives).

😂

Isn't AH just making the point that the data she relies on is bollocks

Trans women are women. Why is it relevant whether they committed their offences before or after transitioning?

Yes.

Spare time! I wish I was doing this in my spare time. I will be working tonight instead of sleeping

But in this hearing that goes in their favour.

I got momentarily distracted by actual work.

AH seems to be saying something that supports KPSS? What point is he making?

I'm getting Jackie Weaver flashbacks at the phrase "Do you have the authority"

Me too

Is AH secretly a plant for AB's case?

BC's point was that the data were open to different interpretations and if someone really were unbiased they would accept this. MB absolutely does not.

Wasn't the whole point that they weren't ALLOWED to hold the data on who was a self identified TW??

No one has painted them as "primarily sex offenders"

I'm getting Cartman from South Park.

I think AH secretly leads the resistance movement. He has that sort of underground general look about him.

AH bringing up the prison study again. Mainly the issues with the data (that self-id would have multiplied because no-one could record birth sex)

Para 75 and para 104 of the Swift judgment.

MB saying 'if you're going to paint trans people as primarily sex offenders it's important to be clear that the evidence is unreliable'

PLEASE Can someone pull her up on this. NO-ONE IS SAYING TRAN PEOPLE ARE PRIMARILY SEX OFFENDERS.

Stop using this as the basis of your opinion, because it is FALSE>

oh thank god shes done