Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 15

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhause

r QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC (teehee)
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To come:

I cannot believe what I just heard.

How can there be any statistics on transwomen prisoners when police and courts record crime committed by men who self ID as being committed by women?

Data needs to be collected properly.

What were the difficult circumstances?

I think EJ can be trusted to draw the right conclusions about the stats from the case.

Lunch break

Stephanie Harrison to start at 2pm.

Ugh that was excruciating

*Next witness:
Stephanie Harrison QC: Garden Court Chambers:
Member of Management and Board from Jan 2018
Equality & Diversity officer from Jan 2018
Joint Head of Chambers from Jan 2020
Chair of Chambers Jan 2021
Barrister - area of practice: immigration, civil liberties and public law

Role in the case: Played a central role, including:
SH sought advice from Cathryn McGahey QC (Vice Chair of the Bar Council’s Ethics Committee) regarding whether AB’s tweets violated the Bar’s Code of Conduct, but did not supply AB’s explanation/substantiation of her tweets.

Bio:
“Described as a ‘brilliant advocate’, Stephanie is a leading public law practitioner who has appeared at all court levels. Her multi-disciplinary practice spans the breadth of public law and civil liberties.
Stephanie's cases include those arising from unlawful detention, national security, official misconduct, abuse of power, child sexual exploitation, equality and discrimination, minority rights and civil rights protest and injunctions.
She also has considerable expertise in cases involving closed material procedures.
Stephanie is regularly involved in test case litigation and has been instrumental in winning some of the most important cases within her areas of specialism in recent times. Much of her work is high profile and receives media coverage. She is passionate about upholding and advancing the rights of vulnerable, minority groups and children.
Stephanie was appointed as legal counsel to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) in 2015.
Stephanie is ranked for Administrative and Public Law, Civil Liberties and Human Rights and Immigration in both the Legal 500 and Chambers UK Bar Guide. Stephanie was shortlisted for Civil Liberties & Human Rights Silk of the Year at Legal 500 UK Awards 2020. She was shortlisted for Human Rights and Public Law Silk of the Year by Chambers Bar Awards 2019. She won the Liberty Human Rights Lawyer of the Year Award 2013, the Chambers UK Bar Human Rights and Public Law Junior of the Year award 2012, and was shortlisted for Public Law Silk of the Year at the Legal 500 Awards 2017.
...
Jointly with other lawyers involved in legal cases seeking equality for lesbians and gay men, Stephanie was awarded the Stonewall Equality Award in 1997.”

A few additional pieces of background:
SH was a speaker at TransJustice Conference, 20 May 2016, hosted by GCC, covering: ‘Current challenges faced by trans and gender non-conforming people in the criminal justice system’, such as ‘the detention of trans women in male prisons’, and the ‘effect of non-disclosure of gender identity and history on the validity of sexual consent (i.e. so-called “gender deception” prosecutions)’.
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/events/transjustice-conference

SH was a speaker at the inaugural conference of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI) on 18 November 2016, which was sponsored and live-tweeted by GCC.
(Also speaking from GCC: Michelle Brewer, Shu Shin Luh, Louise Hooper.
Other speakers included: Helen Belcher, Alex Sharpe, Jane Fae, Jess Bradley, Susie Green, Tara Hewitt.)
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/events/trans-equality-legal-initiative-launch-conference
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

We’ll that was a rollicking ride. I stress ate a load of carbs just listening to it. I can’t imagine what it must be like to work in that environment.

Big thank you from AH to AB for attending. And mention of difficult circumstances?

Am I being too optimistic to hope that one upshot of MB and AH's insistence on complaining on the problems with the data in transwomen in prisons will be more pressure to actually get accurate data instead of allowing all the obfuscation and recording male crime as female crime?

MB can't see the wood for the trans.

Yes. This is important.

Well I still don't quite know what to make of that and I had to dip in and out which doesn't help. Anyone able to sum up the key revelations amongst the superfluous waffle?

Stop using this as the basis of your opinion, because it is FALSE

For the purposes of this case, though, it is beneficial that she is basing her statements on a false premise. She is too intelligent to actually not understand what is being said, so she is wilfully misinterpreting GC views in the worst possible light. Because she is bigoted against GC women.

Well people, that was what the right side of history looks and sounds like. MB provided a whole set of reasons why we must continue to resist the gender identity ideology.

The really chilling thing about this whole case thus far is the degree to which so many people have become utterly brainwashed and simply unable, in any degree, to admit to others (and presumably to themselves) that there could be any way in which different viewpoints might be valid.

And that this is on matters of actual, material reality.

It does make me feel very frightened, tbh.

Could difficult circumstances perhaps refer to whatever significant personal reason meant MB originally couldn't attend today? Recall last thing Tuesday AH was passed a note saying MB couldn't do Thursday so we all expected her yesterday and then at the start of yesterday, without reference to Tuesday's note, it was said that she would be today.

Or just that she's had to talk a lot?!?

To sum up - she didn't remember much but everything she remembers was transphobic.

Am logged in today just from work today with a support Diet Coke. My blood almost boiled at the misrepresenting of the prison statistics. So relieved Ben provided clarity.

Was also exceptionally frustrated that nobody picked up on MBs repeated misquoting of Allison. She never said all trans prisoners are primarily sex offenders. She said they are more likely to be sex offenders in the same way that men are more likely to be than women. It’s that repeated belief that trans women are somehow in some way different to other men. GC people just think of sex and don’t care about gender. What’s so hard to understand?

It does mean her clear bias and prejudice is repeatedly clear to see.

It’s frightening though that she is a judge. The infiltration of the ideology manifesting in this dogmatic belief that TWAW with zero thought to how that affects women is chilling. :(

I've been in training since 10am and was having really poor connectivity problems for the commute so only heard bits and pieces from 9-10am.

Looking forward to catching up with the threads I've missed later.

Might've been covered on the previous thread but my word of the day is homophily. I shall endeavour to use it in a sentence as soon as possible.

Perish the thought that anyone might intentionally or unintentionally create a homophobic homophily.

How's it all been going? Living up to star billing or did the support acts steal the show?

Thank God MB is done:

BC: [Quotes something MB said/wrote] That's right, isn't it?

MB: It's not as straightforward as that, Mr Cooper. [Makes a distinction without a difference, waffles on for five minutes. Eventually agrees with BC and promises to keep answers shorter in future, but with no intention of doing so]

Me: Exasperated So that's a yes then?!

Repeat ad infinitum.

And she has two young kids. And can drive. Seems to be on holiday a lot?

I'll go with what I wrote at the start WookeyHole. That was mainly about BC allowing MB to provide a spun version of what her views are and what she did, and let the tribunal look at the written record and to see a massive gulf between 2018 and what she said this morning.

I agree with this. Plus it's very far from an isolated case.

As Ricky Gervais observed, no one has a years-and-years-old tweet saying women don't have penises: "because we didn't think we had to!"

This ideology is frightening. Its focus is on attacking the rights of LGB people, women, and children. It purposely seeks to remove all boundaries and silence even the mildest critique.

Could have given DDM a run for his money in the sleepstake @IdisagreeMrHochhauser 😴