Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

Wait self ID is problematic in prison?

Mr Cooper you and I are not opposing counsel on a case!

Yes that's true Ms Brewer. Perhaps you should just answer the questions then?

BC points out that MB relies on this case to show that it is transphobic to make an argument that TW present a statistical risk. He suggests her reading of the judgment is biased.

MB says not.

MB having none of it, she is right and her interpretation is the correct one.

MB accuses Sex Matters of confirmation bias.

Ooh, she's getting snitty now - "I've given my evidence... the judgment is clear..."

Go Ben. He says her reading is biased and prejudicial and relying on it to form a view of anyone raising the possibility of a risk is prejudiced.
Which it is.

She’s deliberately twisting here

AH!

Yet again going back to "if you say all TW are sex offenders that's transphobic" when no-one's saying that.

What is it Ben is reading from? Sounds very interesting and raises very good points about the vulnerability of wormn prisoners.

I think it's the judgment in MOJ versus FDJ.

Lot of eye rolling from MB.

MB just claimed that feminists claim that transwomen are 'primarily sex offenders'

How can they continually lie about our views?

He suggests her reading of the judgment is biased.

It is fairly clear that she is biased. She keeps referring back to the evidence of one witness rather than the balanced actual judgement.

I don't think Sex Matters ARE claiming that transwomen are primarily sex offenders are they? Just that they have male patterns of offending.

BC isn't quite making clear his underlying point here. The statistics can be interpreted in different ways and MB holds the view that her interpretation is valid, and so it is prejudiced of her to hold the view that an opposing interpretation cannot be valid.

I think I have to start a "Minority!" drinking game.

To say it’s worrying that MB - an actual judge - gave a totally misleading characterisation of the comments in that judgment to suit her own purposes is putting it extremely mildly.

Who is saying that “transwomen are primarily sex offenders”? Surely noone is making that argument? Why does MB keep saying that?

BC moves on to TELI (Transgender Legal Initiative) and asks about it being a campaigning set up. MB a bit vague but maybe.

Here is the link to it from the chat,

vlex.co.uk/vid/r-fdj-v-secretary-870407176

Omg.

She's absolutely closed to any concerns at all.

Transwomen are the most vulnerable. No one else matters. Mentioning any concerns, anything that is unsupportive of transpeople at all times is transphobic. Doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

MB im just going to change the meaning of words again to make my case

Even AH wants MB to stop talking - I will re-exame - move on.

Now on to TELI

Takes five minutes to answer whether TELI was a campaigning organisation.