Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 4

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A
Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Witness Statement of Allison Bailey: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Kirrin Medcalf's complaint to GCC: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/PH-Bundle-pp-331-2-Stonewall-Complaint.pdf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3?

I feel like KM's evidence has helped Allison's case in some ways.

I really hope some journalists write up what was said, especially the beliefs.

It shows that SW's aims & positions are built on things that are not true. Bodies are not inherently male or female etc. People would balk. Its not true, its not how the law envisions things, and it's stupid to try and attach rights for trsns ppl to such a wrong notion that hardly anyone believes.

But if people can follow the thought to the end they can see how it conflicts with women's rights, and especially with rights for homosexuals. That's why LGBA is needed and why Allison's original email was true. Its extreme. Absolutist even (!). We can't articulate a defence of rights for our sex (or attraction to one sex & not the other) if we have to pretend it is true.

I hope it gets written up in HR Today or something as well as all the papers. I hope journalists other than the usual ones take note.

Thanks for the new thread

This organisation has been 'advising' the MoD.

Sobering.

Perhaps I've been on here too long, but I'm surprised anyone's surprised about the stuff KM/Stonewall have been coming out with iyswim. I guess a few years ago I genuinely thought someone could explain it all so that it'd make sense to me and I'd fully get it, but I'm way past that now.

I noticed that Nancy Kelly was trying to come across very reasonably/mainstream on that WH interview, which jarred a bit with all the spiel that gets trotted out in SW's name. When EB pressed her, e.g. 'is a TW a woman literally or figuratively?' she did have to answer as per SW. But those questions were lacking slightly imo. (Just because I'd have had a field day!)

Thanks for the new thread!

Such a shame they haven't opened comments on that Telegraph article

@Pluvia 'This is where 'be kind' gets you.'

You speak so much sense in your posts Pluvia. I think the 'be kind' movement can be damaging for societal groups who don't have strong boundaries (e.g. children and neurodivergent people - I'm autistic and speak from experience.)

It also reinforces female socialisation, of course.

Did you see the letter KM wrote to GCC. It's very clear what was meant. Doubt his mum wrote it.

Thanks for all the updates today. It has taken me until now to read then and OMGG I think my brain has exploded.

Poor Alison. Just how did that incompetent, spineless twerp end up with so much influence whilst the brilliant, black barrister was treated like persona non grata?

SW would have done less badly if the dog had taken the stand.

I'm confused. Is KM male or female?

I don't know what you're asking Where - there's no such thing as those words...

Thanks for the new thread.
And thanks for all the commentary.
Trying to keep up!
Meant to be having an internet break, which is partially enforced by virtue of being in the middle of Exmoor, and the long walks and gorgeous scenery are lovely but I'm suffering from FOMO or just MO

It can't be far out.

Having graduated from Northampton University with a 1st in BA (Hons) Criminology in 2013 and due to finish a Master’s Degree from Portsmouth in Literature, Culture and Identity this year, Kayden is looking forward to being able to spend more quality time with Holly and Pixie instead of just cuddling up with them while reading books and writing essays. This is the first article of Kayden's to be published and will hopefully be the first of many.

First published 31 July 2014

www.agilitynet.co.uk/features/lgbtexperiences_kayemedcalf.html

You're right @PrelateChuckles . Silly me.

Are there any photos of Kirren ... I have had a Google but couldn't see anything.
Mind you that could be due to reading all the other threads 😎



Sorry didn't post first time

Kirrin Medcalf, Head of Trans Inclusion, Stonewall said: ‘It’s vital that any cis woman, trans man and non-binary person who needs the pill can access it. This is a matter of reproductive equality.
Anyone who has periods or the ability to become pregnant has the right to control when and whether they become pregnant. But many trans men and non-binary people have struggled to access the pill as some providers are unsure whether they can give it to trans patients.’

Really? HCPs are unsure if they can give the pill to women either blue hair?

Chinny reckon

Just guessing but maybe if people are on hormones, other types of people that prescribe contraception might be unsure of how they work together?

Why did KM exclude trans women from that statement? (I agree with the sentiment btw; I don't think there should be unreasonable barriers to accessing the pill).

Oh good lord. If you ask your doctor to prescribe the pill for you, they're going to know if you're male or female. They might not be completely au fait with how it interacts with other drugs you're taking, but they know whether you're a man or a woman. I mean, they're your doctor for God's sake.

KM is male presenting (I assume from the tribunal and use of the title Mr plus male singular pronouns in addition to the neutrois of they).

KM writes about their journey here.

For example, I am non-binary. My passport and driver’s licence currently state ‘male’, but my birth certificate ‘female’.

Both of these options are incorrect.

I would much prefer my true gender of non-binary to be recognised on these identification documents I use daily.
…
During my first year at university I was forced to use single-sex female accommodation as I couldn’t get ID showing me as non-binary or male.

eachother.org.uk/it-is-the-right-for-all-people-to-live-their-life-as-themselves/

I was hoping to see the emotional support dog's reaction today.