Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 4

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A
Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Witness Statement of Allison Bailey: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Kirrin Medcalf's complaint to GCC: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/PH-Bundle-pp-331-2-Stonewall-Complaint.pdf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3?

I suppose at least they're dealing with it quickly now.

I'm sure I remember in one of the original articles by a TW writer that described the concept of the cotton ceiling (sadly I can't find a copy still available online) the definite complaint about how female lesbians would happily chat with and be very nice to TW but then not to be willing to progress to sex, and the indignant phrase "they resist the penis!" was involved.

I remember the phrase, as my jaw hit the floor. But yes, the evidence does not fit with the hurried re writing post delayed realisation of optics.

Has anyone any idea why I can't get sound when I join from my phone (using chrome)? The volume setting is up, I'm accessing it exactly the same way that I do with my android tablet but I don't get sound. Tried logging out and rejoining etc but unsuccessful.

I see as predicted that it's been realised that it disrupts. I hope someone's shared with the judge how this is a political lobby that has been forced to write and post their own transphobia on MN in order to screenshot it for Twitter due to the sad lack of GC women doing it. Bit of a track record.

On the first logging in screen make sure the icons for vid and mic are not crossed out.

Thanks @ickky I've checked that and they're both uncrossed.

Here's some background of early stuff Artichokeleaves:

twitter.com/rdqb80/status/1310284446264942592 (note the screenshot of the Drew DeVeaux tweets saying "Ceilings, in these kinds of metaphors, are there to be broken. & the idea of forcefully breaking through someone's underwear.... .. well...you can't blame people for seeing a rape-like connotation in that, and believe that the goal is to apply pressure")

freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/04/04/caught-up-in-cotton/

mirandayardley.com/en/the-cotton-ceiling/

Given the state of the tech overall, I highly doubt they can block by IP address. It's been an awful shambles.

Yes, the people writing 'transwomen are men' in the chat aren't GC women. We're all over here having a lovely time, we don't need the chat function.

They don't like sunlight.

The only possible way the 'cotton ceiling' (ugh) can be interpreted is as part of rape culture.

The 'barriers' are women saying 'no'. They want to overcome women saying 'no'. It's homophobic, misogynistic and rape culture adjacent at the very best.

More bundle issues!

Could someone with legal experience please shed some light - is this normal?

As someone with very limited experience of the legal system, it comes across as very poorly prepared and unprofessional.

Or are my expectations wrong and based on very polished TV series?

No apparently the clusterfuck of a bundle/s is not the usual.

AH is literally telling Allison that she's had plenty of time to examine the documents, while the Tribunal is waiting for an updated bundle? Did I get that right?!

I'm sure I remember in one of the original articles by a TW writer that described the concept of the cotton ceiling (sadly I can't find a copy still available online) the definite complaint about how female lesbians would happily chat with and be very nice to TW but then not to be willing to progress to sex, and the indignant phrase "they resist the penis!" was involved.

I've read several of these in the past. As well as a million* creepy harassing tweets.

*not quite a million, but lots

*not quite a million, but lots

I hope the irony isn’t lost on the panel!

Why does Ah keep having a pop about the size of AB witness statement? Pot and kettle!

I googled the phrase "they resist the penis" (oh dear my search history). It took me to back to MN.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

The phrase is on the first page but the link goes to an error page now. It's gone.

I went away to find definitions or ‘overcoming’ and ‘coerce’ but you lot are too quick.

It is frightening the synonyms for overcoming are: rendering helpless, overpowering, crushing, subduing, conquering.

Coerce: oppress, force, intimidate, frighten someone with threats.

I think AB got it spot on. The oppressor and the oppressed.

Again she is being grilled about the merits the legal argument rather than the facts of the case - I am sure this is dodgy

BC would intervene if he thought anything was amiss though?

I guess so, but it could be that she is handling it well -i.e. saying that she will "defer to the lawyers" at the right point. - Its not very fair though

Yes I'm sure he would. I think he is taking a hands off approach though as it's clear that AB is able to handle AH herself. Also it means that when IO and AH keep interrupting him during his cross examination he can tell them to back off :D

The phrase is on the first page but the link goes to an error page now. It's gone

It's been archived!

(I'll post archive link in a separate post because I think it'll be instantly hidden until MN look at it.)

The phrase is on the first page but the link goes to an error page now. It's gone.

It's archived. I won't comment just in case I get the link deleted.

web.archive.org/web/20180508084334/tgforum.com/wordpress/the-cotton-ceiling

archive.ph/Sjn3D