Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 4

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A
Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Witness Statement of Allison Bailey: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Kirrin Medcalf's complaint to GCC: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/PH-Bundle-pp-331-2-Stonewall-Complaint.pdf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3?

Today's Times.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-boss-demands-mother-dog-and-support-staff-for-hearing-0mjjb9sn0?shareToken=2729cc949f96becfb2074677a737cfcd

I think only one side benefits from everyone being kicked out.
I also think the EJ will deal with the comment towards Allison before the start of proceedings today, but she deserves a public apology.

She does deserve an apology. And the chat needs to be sorted out, there's absolutely no excuse for observers disrupting and taking up time. Goodness knows enough is being wasted by the actual players with bundle issues and their behaviour is hardly above reproach either.

Mark Gatiss would very much enjoy the role.

Thanks for that. I thought that was a fair summary of the whole debacle.

I think IO is a bit of a piss taker, to be honest, and her OTT chicken little reaction to the insult to Allison was then nicely sidestepped by the insult to RMW.

She couldn't have hoped for better timing, if she had planned it.

As Datun rightly described, it's 'manufactured outrage'.

There’s an interesting article in the Mail Online this morning about Kirrin Medcalf’s evidence - the thing about bodies not being male or female - as well as a rehash of ‘the mum, the support person and the dog’ story.

I think they got his age wrong though. He can’t be 24 if he was doing a Master’s in 2014.

DM story: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10807211/We-not-inherently-male-female-Stonewall-campaigner-says-bodies-just-bodies.html

He can’t be 24 if he was doing a Master’s in 2014

34 is the age given everywhere else I’ve seen.

a person's age isn't inherently 24 or 34, it's just, y'know, their age.

I think biologically speaking that a person's age changes over their lifecycle.

Can I be a Stonewall Diversity Champion now?

Agreed.

The chat is really pissing me off. People would be kicked out of court if they behaved like this at an in person hearing, and rightly so. It's not fucking Facebook.

I can see that there is a possibility that the chat would be deliberately targeted by interested parties to force the closure of the tribunal to the public, if they thought that was an option.

Indeed. The sabotaging of revealing threads on here to ensure their removal is a common tactic. All the more frustrating because posters know it's happening and that the mods are being played.

I hope the ET realise that.

a person's age isn't inherently 24 or 34, it's just, y'know, their age

I think biologically speaking that a person's age changes over their lifecycle

Puffy and Jules I do apologise, I was doing that thoroughly-discredited thing of using facts. I don’t know what possessed me. Must do better

Sending my best wishes and admiration to Allison today. She must be exhausted. She is doing amazingly and is a inspiration. X

Age is, indeed, a spectrum.

Can I recommend Tanya Moodie for the role of AB in the film?
I'm following a little bit on Twitter and here in between work and house stuff. Allison is coming across as very knowledgeable and steady. Even in the face of, what appears to me, frequent attempts to provoke her.
The witness yesterday reminded me of when a child has told a lie, so they tell another to support the first lie and another to support the second etc so by the time they are finished their story they've convinced themselves it's the truth. That's just how it read to me.

Is this Allison's last day of being questioned by the hostile QCs? Or does she have more to come later on in the hearing?

She's bearing up amazingly well, considering how unwell she was not that long ago.

I'm sure this has been asked before but please could someone help out with how I can send a message of support to Allison? She was put under such pressure yesterday and I think she's amazing.

My inner feeling today is that I'm about 70, and deserve to retire and get a pension although in reality I'm only 40something.

Shall I have a tantrum when not affirmed in my inner age by not getting my state pension?

Didn't a bloke transition just so he could access his pension as a female which was offered at a lower age in his country?

All the theoretical jokey scenarios, have usually already been exploited by a bloke, somewhere.

It should be the last day of cross-examination for AB.

I wonder if the EJ will say something like ‘The person who spoke has come forward and apologised to the ET.’

I hope so. Blatant bullying of the claimant.

Also v. unpleasant bullying of RMW, who also behaved well as far as I could see.

Didn't a bloke transition just so he could access his pension as a female which was offered at a lower age in his country?

I think the case you are thinking of happened in either Denmark or The Netherlands the bloke didn't transition to female he just tried to self-id his age, his argument was that if you can self-id your sex why not your age and used the same arguments used for sex self-id but he lost the case.

Allison is on Twitter, but I know that's not everyone's cup of tea - such a cess pit of nasty trolly types waiting to slag women off for talking to each other.

In Canada a man changed his legal sex/gender to female purely to get cheaper car insurance. And this was under stricter rules in 2018, when he needed a doctor's note - that requirement has since been abolished, it's pure self-id now.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/change-gender-identification-insurance-alberta-1.4754416

I think she may have deactivated her account, hopefully just for the duration of evidence. It was @blueskyallison

I don't agree it was 'bullying' of RMW - it was a randomer off the internet.

It wasn't anyone with any power in the proceedings and could have been avoided if they closed the chat, which would be the professional option. It's their own fault they have terrible technology and seemingly less ability to manage an online meeting than my DDs primary school class teacher during lockdown.

AB was mocked by someone who is involved in the case - someone who is paid as a professional to be there and who has significant influence over the proceedings.

There is really no comparison.