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Original poster

Two women pregnant by Trans inmate

105 replies

LittleWhingingWoman · 14/04/2022 09:06

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10716417/Two-women-female-New-Jersey-prison-PREGNANT-trans-inmates.html

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 14/04/2022 10:31

It is unbelievable that inmates with penises and testicles are allowed to be incarcerated in women's jails.
They should be in the Men's jail.

Talk about the fox getting into the henhouse.

Maternitynamechange · 14/04/2022 10:49

And behold! The female conception!

TracyMosby · 14/04/2022 10:50

The women have no means of escaping the situation. There is a definite power imbalance. Even if it was consensual, under those circumstances it cannot be consensual.

PermanentTemporary · 14/04/2022 10:52

I agree TracyMosby. The changes in dynamic with male prisoners in a female institution, particularly having 27 arrive in less than a year, are hidden but likely very significant.

Fulmine · 14/04/2022 10:57

@OvaHere

How do we know it was consensual as the article states? They lie about everything else.
On that basis, how do we know that any of it happened? Especially given that it's the Mail. You can't pick the facts that are convenient to one particular agenda and reject the rest.
RoyalCorgi · 14/04/2022 10:57

On another news article about similar, there were comments that it was ok because women sexually assault each other as well.

The other argument is that male guards sometimes assault female prisoners, therefore we are hypocrites for objecting to male prisoners in women's prisons. This is particularly vile because it ignores the actual problem - putting violent male offenders in with women prisoners - in favour of an ad hominem attack on those of us who are campaigning to support the most vulnerable women in society.

The logic seems to be that if male guards - who, I imagine, are generally vetted for previous convictions - are a danger to women, then we might as well stick in some actual rapists because it's all the same.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/04/2022 11:00

And this from a country that wants to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies. Horrific. Women really are just collateral, aren't we?

Fulmine · 14/04/2022 11:02

Surely they can't consent, seeing as their status is 'wards of the state'. The prison service takes responsibility for them whilst they are incarcerated. They can't make choices like using drugs or commuting suicide and the state has measures to prevent that. Pregnancy when locked up and denied freedom by it's very definition is rape, surely?!

No, the only human right that is denied to prisoners is the right to freedom. Using drugs is illegal in or out of prison, and the state has measures to prevent suicide wherever people are.

FrancescaContini · 14/04/2022 11:02

@RoyalCorgi

On another news article about similar, there were comments that it was ok because women sexually assault each other as well.

The other argument is that male guards sometimes assault female prisoners, therefore we are hypocrites for objecting to male prisoners in women's prisons. This is particularly vile because it ignores the actual problem - putting violent male offenders in with women prisoners - in favour of an ad hominem attack on those of us who are campaigning to support the most vulnerable women in society.

The logic seems to be that if male guards - who, I imagine, are generally vetted for previous convictions - are a danger to women, then we might as well stick in some actual rapists because it's all the same.

It’s not just a vile argument, it’s total obfuscation.
PermanentTemporary · 14/04/2022 11:04

The argument is that these are lesbian relationships which aren't unusual in female institutions.

Deliriumoftheendless · 14/04/2022 11:04

I always think that, Corgi

Male guards may be an issue- and I’m not downplaying that but they will have been DBS checked (in UK) and a sexual offence conviction would rule them out, yet here sexual offence convictions are not a barrier.

If male guards wi thy convictions for rape were employed in female prisons I’m sure there would be an outcry- but not if it’s prisoners 🤷‍♀️

RoyalCorgi · 14/04/2022 11:08

On that basis, how do we know that any of it happened? Especially given that it's the Mail. You can't pick the facts that are convenient to one particular agenda and reject the rest.

If you look at the bottom of the Mail article, it gives the source as this site:

www.nj.com/news/2022/04/two-women-at-nj-prison-are-pregnant-after-consensual-sex-between-inmates-doc-says.html

It quotes the Department of Correction's director of external affairs Dan Sperrazza, as saying: "It appears the women became pregnant from consensual sexual relationships with another incarcerated person."

If a real person is quoted, we can safely assume that the pregnancy story is factually correct. Sperrazza says that the relationships were consensual. We can't possibly know whether he is telling the truth about that or not.

stimpyyouidiot · 14/04/2022 11:09

This is outrageous

OvaHere · 14/04/2022 11:10

@RoyalCorgi

On another news article about similar, there were comments that it was ok because women sexually assault each other as well.

The other argument is that male guards sometimes assault female prisoners, therefore we are hypocrites for objecting to male prisoners in women's prisons. This is particularly vile because it ignores the actual problem - putting violent male offenders in with women prisoners - in favour of an ad hominem attack on those of us who are campaigning to support the most vulnerable women in society.

The logic seems to be that if male guards - who, I imagine, are generally vetted for previous convictions - are a danger to women, then we might as well stick in some actual rapists because it's all the same.

It's the argument espoused a few years ago by Ruth Hunt, then head of Stonewall.

The sentiment at the core of it is ' men will rape women anyway so this shouldn't be a barrier to letting them have and do whatever they want'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3589644-Ruth-Hunt-men-will-always-rape-women

Utterly sickening.

Femalewoman · 14/04/2022 11:16

Putting men who just say they are women in with women (biological women) what could go wrong. Were they raped by these women with dicks (men) or did they want to become pregnant.

Why are men in women's prisons. It's wrong. Vulnerable women are the victims here not men dressed up as women.

Whatwouldscullydo · 14/04/2022 11:16

I have huge concerns with the staff thing these days. In the sense that I suspect many female staff will walk as a result of state sanctioned sexual harassment in the form of being made to search male prisoners. The removal of safguarding will also force many out. I cant see many of rhe ones who realky do care about the inmates and keeping them safe and looked after and rehabilitated etc feeling as if they will be able to stay and be a part of all this.

I am really worried about what the staff that now apply and remain working fir the system are like. I cant see any desirable staff openly applying for a spot where they have to do this to women. It can only go one way.

These women are on their own. Prison is suposoed to be the punishment..not rape. Not abuse from.staff..not being incarcerated with males etc

Femalewoman · 14/04/2022 11:17

@PermanentTemporary

The argument is that these are lesbian relationships which aren't unusual in female institutions.
Do lesbians have dicks with sperm and are they usually biological men?
PermanentTemporary · 14/04/2022 11:20

No of course not. I should be clearer that I think calling these lesbian relationships is wrong and offensive. Think I need to get off MN for a bit I'm offending lots of people by doing the TRAs arguments for them this morning.

jay55 · 14/04/2022 11:24

No need to go to Cambodia to buy a baby, buy one right here from your friendly state prison, comes with US citizenship and full medical history.

Just following the US for profit prisons allowing male inmates to its ultimate conclusion.

oakleaffy · 14/04/2022 11:43

@PermanentTemporary

The argument is that these are lesbian relationships which aren't unusual in female institutions.
Except Lesbians don't have penises.
HermioneWeasley · 14/04/2022 11:47

How can women incarcerated with males ever freely consent- how can you possibly know that?

It’s such disgusting misogyny - there is no bottom to the hatred of women

FrancescaContini · 14/04/2022 12:41

@PermanentTemporary

The argument is that these are lesbian relationships which aren't unusual in female institutions.
But how can they be “lesbian relationships” if one of them has a penis and impregnates the woman in the “relationship”? Hmm
Fulmine · 14/04/2022 12:45

@RoyalCorgi

On that basis, how do we know that any of it happened? Especially given that it's the Mail. You can't pick the facts that are convenient to one particular agenda and reject the rest.

If you look at the bottom of the Mail article, it gives the source as this site:

www.nj.com/news/2022/04/two-women-at-nj-prison-are-pregnant-after-consensual-sex-between-inmates-doc-says.html

It quotes the Department of Correction's director of external affairs Dan Sperrazza, as saying: "It appears the women became pregnant from consensual sexual relationships with another incarcerated person."

If a real person is quoted, we can safely assume that the pregnancy story is factually correct. Sperrazza says that the relationships were consensual. We can't possibly know whether he is telling the truth about that or not.

My point was not that the pregnancies haven't happened, but that if you accept the report it is illogical to decide that the only bit you don't accept is the one that doesn't suit a particular agenda.
Whatwouldscullydo · 14/04/2022 12:49

The poster wasn't actually being serious merely quoting what a TRA would say.

We all know.lesbians do not and have never had or will ever have a penis.