Two women pregnant by Trans inmate

[LittleWhingingWoman]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10716417/Two-women-female-New-Jersey-prison-PREGNANT-trans-inmates.html

My point was not that the pregnancies haven't happened, but that if you accept the report it is illogical to decide that the only bit you don't accept is the one that doesn't suit a particular agenda

You have misread that post. The post was not about what else the article could be lying about. It’s what else could the prison authorities be lying about, if they’re claiming - directly quoted - that the relationships were consensual.

Basically, we need to hear directly from the women, not the men publicly representing them.

@NotBadConsidering

My point was not that the pregnancies haven't happened, but that if you accept the report it is illogical to decide that the only bit you don't accept is the one that doesn't suit a particular agenda

You have misread that post. The post was not about what else the article could be lying about. It’s what else could the prison authorities be lying about, if they’re claiming - directly quoted - that the relationships were consensual.

Basically, we need to hear directly from the women, not the men publicly representing them.

Is this my post that was misunderstood?

I didn't mean what was The Mail lying about I meant as @NotBadConsidering says, what are the prison authorities and those that are imposing this top down diktat lying about?

They lie that men are women. Then they lie about the danger male prisoners, especially those who are convicted sex offenders, pose to women. So it's not a stretch to think they would lie to cover up rape that happened as a result of their own decisions. Is it?

But how can they be “lesbian relationships” if one of them has a penis and impregnates the woman in the “relationship”?

Are you new to this? This isn't our argument it is the one that gets telled to us to explain why men are women.

Yes we know it doesn't make sense. But people have been banned from this forum for stating that men cannot be women.

Yes it is bonkers. That's what we have been saying.

That didn't take long, did it?

Another bleeding obvious consequence to the lunacy that everyone sane saw coming from the start.

Guess which of the two sexes has all the detriment from this little experiment? Gosh. Not them again?

It makes me so so sad that these vulnerable women have no right to say what happens to them - they are utterly voiceless, we cannot hear their point of view and they are not being protected because men's feeling reign supreme. Who is speaking up on behalf of these women?

I'd be interested to hear Lisa Nancy's response to this.

I can predict it in advance. Radio silence.

Largely because they don't quite have the courage to face that they truly believe that this is a worthwhile price to pay in female bodies to serve male people living their best lives and having their feelings recognised.

And that this makes them male supremacists.

@AlisonDonut

But how can they be “lesbian relationships” if one of them has a penis and impregnates the woman in the “relationship”?

Are you new to this? This isn't our argument it is the one that gets telled to us to explain why men are women.

Yes we know it doesn't make sense. But people have been banned from this forum for stating that men cannot be women.

Yes it is bonkers. That's what we have been saying.

No, not remotely new. My question (tongue firmly in cheek) was directed at @PermanentTemporary’s comment.

Sometimes I think it might be useful to make comments (obvious perhaps to some) for all the possibly thousands of people lurking, new to wanting to understand the issues better.

With regard to prison staff in the UK, I was in the prison service when the first cross sex postings were introduced. Selection of suitable staff was a careful and measured process - this would have been circa 1989, from memory.

Once it was established Prison Service policy, the gates (as it were) were open and any officer could apply. And did. Much of my time in the latter stages of my career was taken up with investigating allegations of staff misconduct - male prison officers engaging in inappropriate relationships with women prisoners. It was gross misconduct because of the clear power imbalance as well as the potential for corruption.

My investigations were the direct cause of seeing at least a dozen male prison officers given the boot but in any staff meeting, it was easy enough to pick out the male officers most likely to cross the line.

I doubt it's any better today. What l can't even begin to get my head around is a situation where women prisoners are forced to share communal areas with male bodied prisoners. These women are widely acknowledged to be a vulnerable and traumatised group who have poor coping strategies because of their histories of being abused.

Putting predatory males in women's prisons is an egregious policy and must be stopped. If the Daily Mail is starting to wake people up about the logical consequences, then I hope it continues by reporting on the reality in UK prisons today and why they are not safe for women who need women-only spaces.

My point was not that the pregnancies haven't happened, but that if you accept the report it is illogical to decide that the only bit you don't accept is the one that doesn't suit a particular agenda.

Right. But my point is that certain elements of the report are objectively verifiable. You can verify if the two women are pregnant. You can verify that there were X number of trans women in the prison.
How do you verify whether the sexual relationships that resulted in the pregnancy were consensual or not? There are obvious reasons why the prison authorities might lie about that. There are certainly reasons the trans women prisoners who fathered the babies might lie about it. And there are also reasons the pregnant women themselves might lie about it - what do you think might happen to those women if they accused a fellow inmate of raping them?

So I'm not saying that the relationships weren't consensual. I am saying that we can't be sure that they were.

@jay55

No need to go to Cambodia to buy a baby, buy one right here from your friendly state prison, comes with US citizenship and full medical history.

Just following the US for profit prisons allowing male inmates to its ultimate conclusion.

This is exactly my fear in this situation. I got shoved out of my friend group in 2018 for speaking out about this possibility because “this never happens, are you saying -all- TW are rapists, are you saying that lesbians shouldn’t be in female prisons just because of their attractions” etc etc. As it stands, babies born in prisons in the US are shunted into foster care. Many, many people who aren’t eligible for adoption via more ‘traditional’ means are told to sign up as a foster parent and get on the foster-to-adopt pipeline. The demand for healthy babies is huge, and the financial implications of this are staggering. I want to be wrong about this. I’ve wanted to be wrong every step of the way. For once in my life, I would love to be pleasantly surprised by the actions of institutions created by and held up by men. I want to be wrong. I’m afraid that I am not.

@Helleofabore

I wait for the usual posters to come and tell us that this is absolutely fine and that there is absolutely nothing to see here......

I notice that those posters are becoming more and more absent with the many posts detailing the very real ramifications that we are seeing now. Some of those ramifications we were told would never happen!

I was wondering if the usual would turn up and argue that this was a woman's right to earn money to put on her books for commissary and such.

It is unclear if the women had sex with the same transgender woman. Edna Mahan houses 27 transgender prisoners, and over 800 cisgender women
…
The correctional facility began to house transgender women - including those that have yet to undergo gender reassignment surgery - last year.

Approx. 3% is a startlingly high figure for such a recent policy change (July 21 according to Mail story).

This is just wrong on so many levels. There has to be separate spaces in prisons where men are not with women. Women are been attacked by men in women prisons and now getting pregnant, why are men still a priority and not women's safe spaces for women only. Just shocking that yet again men's lives mean more than women's.

Pregnancy isn't the only risk to those women; its also STD's and mental health issues. Thats exactly the sort of high stress situation that will trigger a severe bi-polar episode.

Surprise surprise. We did say this would happen and all we got was a load of abuse for being 'transphobic'.

These poor women and their babies.

The correctional facility began to house transgender women - including those that have yet to undergo gender reassignment surgery - last year.

What percentage of those who not yet undergone gender reassignment surgery actually plan to have it done?

It's beginning to sound as if that is currently only a small minority of all trans women. I have seen figures suggesting that between 80 and 90 percent of trans women have not had gender reassignment surgery, and some anecdotal evidence that many have no intention to get it done (the girldick lot). But as far as I know, there is no good study on this.

And agreed that the percentage of transgender prisoners sounds high. Some not-trans prisoners might be exploiting the rules to get access to nicer and less violent prison conditions and possible to heterosexual intercourse. Or some might be sexual predators looking for prey.

Never mind. What this amounts to is that the prisons in that state will now be of two kinds: One for the male sex and another one which is mixed sex, unless trans men choose to move into the male prisons (do they?).

[quote BenCooperisaGod]This is where i heard about the law change. I cant remember if it was federal or state law that changed. This should come with a trigger warning. When you see up close just how much men hate us and the lengths they will go to, to give men what they demand at the expense of women is really unsettling. There is literally nothing they wont do. Nothing is off limits.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4518170--USA-vid-interview-with-male-prison-officer-regarding-male-trans-prisoners-Shocking[/quote]
Thank you- I’ll psych myself up to listen now

well saidNotmeekNotobedient

Edna Mahan houses 27 transgender prisoners, and over 800 cisgender women

Or in non made up bullshit language, the prison houses 27 men and over 800 women.
When you use the language of sex based reality, it shows this for what it is.

Forcing female prisoners to share a cell with a fully intact man is state sanctioned rape.
The 'human rights' of a male sex offender to have his 'gender identity' pandered to are prioritised over the actual safety of any female. Male supremacy in action.

Why aren't they putting the male prisoners with lady feelings in cells together?

If the male who sued for being housed in a men's prison was locked up in a women's prison but forced to share a cell with a fully intact male rapist, would that breach their 'human rights' too?

What an idiotic, harmful, damaging policy. Pregnant women should not be in prison, never mind getting pregnant in there. The potential and likely knock-on implications are horrible for mother and child. State sponsored idiocy

In the mail now. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10719369/Trans-prisoner-got-inmate-pregnant-serving-30-years-killing-foster-father.html

Those poor women, and i cant even think about the children born into this.

So, we know that they will lock up violent men with vulnerable women, and those vulnerable women will get pregnant, and go on to have children, and nothing will happen.

That leaves deaths. How many dead women will it take before this ends?

These are vulnerable women, the risks are too high to place males with females.

And this, Ladies & Gents, is why the cock needs to go before trans women are allowed to share female only spaces.

Brand me a ‘TERF’, IDGAF - it’s not on and before I cause any upset, I have 2 long-standing trans friends (and DD20) with whom I regularly row about this subject.

Us women put up with enough shite from men without adding this to the mix - Post operative - no issue with that 👍

Post operative - no issue with that 👍

You can only consent for yourself. Not others
Which is why no men, full stop, is the only acceptable answer.

@BenCooperisaGod

In the mail now. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10719369/Trans-prisoner-got-inmate-pregnant-serving-30-years-killing-foster-father.html

Those poor women, and i cant even think about the children born into this.

So, we know that they will lock up violent men with vulnerable women, and those vulnerable women will get pregnant, and go on to have children, and nothing will happen.

That leaves deaths. How many dead women will it take before this ends?

How many children dumped in foster care with what is likely to be, when you consider the addiction rates, mental health rates, learning disability rates, trauma rates etc among prison populations, all the challenges of being inside a very stressed woman on a poor diet while being gestated, and the genetic inheritance of two imprisoned parents?

That won't lead to happy ever after adoptions. The costs on the state health, education and social care for early intervention, CAMHS support, therapy, special educational provision, adoption breakdown, residential care even for one child can be eye watering. They are struggling to meet the needs of the children they already have with services hugely overloaded.

Insanity. A whole lot of people, particularly the woman and the child, paying a lifetimes costs for a male person to live their best life.