Maya Forstater hearing starts Monday

[MForstater]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your support: emotional, intellectual, financial, spiritual(!) reading the Mumsnet feminism board is where this all started for me!

The case starts tomorrow.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

It kicks off at 10am - the first bit will be "admin" between the judges and the lawyers working out the timings, issues and any reporting restrictions .

Once that is all sorted the judge and the panel will go away to read (probably for the rest of Monday and all of Tuesday)

I will most likely give evidence Wednesday and Thursday.

@tribunaltweets will be tweeting the whole thing (assuming they get permission from the judge)

Links to papers will go up throughout the case at www.hiyamaya.net.

Any other questions I am happy to answer them (apart from the ones where I have to say "that is for the tribunal to hear"...)

I have made a spectators guide with FAQs etc here

Lots of love

Maya

So, it looks like what happened is that initially CGD went for a proportionate and balanced approach and weren't overly exercised with the idea of someone being offended, but then they called in the DE&I person (from Quantum Impact, I think Farah Mahesri) who had a complete fit over transphobia etc and suddenly everyone was running around like headless chickens.

I put it to the thread that the business model of DE&I outfits is to create enormous concerns to convince people to pay for more DE&I related services. Which is fine because when it turns to shit someone other than the DE&I outfit is left holding the baby.

More of Mr Easley tomorrow morning. Ms Glassman tomorrow afternoon.

Next week Monday morning, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Absolutely fascinating discussion at the end of the hearing today. Female counsel says she can't work at the weekend, citing parenthood responsibilities, specifically saying she's a mum (absolutely fine by me, of course). Male counsel does not cite such responsibilities. Judge issues subtle pressure to persuade her to work anyway.

But sex doesn't matter. Entirely irrelevant to our lives.

I put it to the thread that the business model of DE&I outfits is to create enormous concerns to convince people to pay for more DE&I related services. Which is fine because when it turns to shit someone other than the DE&I outfit is left holding the baby.

Yup. It's never concern for those at the bottom of the equality shit heap.

Funnily enough dinosaurs come up
BC: Is it the case that it is QI told you you were dinosaurs failing to spot transphobia?
LE: Can't recall any of thjat.
BC: But you can't recall what she DID mean?
LE: no

I put it to the thread that the business model of DE&I outfits is to create enormous concerns to convince people to pay for more DE&I related services.

Such cynicism

It is also useful to the executives of the company, as any sort of external consultancy or outsourcing is, in that it removes a chain of responsibility and gives someone else to blame when it turns to shit.

"Well, we were just following best practice, as advised by..."

Plus for public bodies it often lets them hide stuff on the grounds of "commercial confidentiality".

I think it's probably the case that given the circles the CGD execs move in they would rather be seen to be doing the right thing according to their DIE commissar and Standing Up Against Transphobia, even if they have to pay out to one strange woman from TERF Island. They made sure their staff weren't Unsafe.

Maybe some of the people like LE hadn't grasped exactly how important this issue was to the commissars and their HR peers, but they got educated. ("You're not going to support a transphobe, are you, Luke?")

@tabbycatstripy

Absolutely fascinating discussion at the end of the hearing today. Female counsel says she can't work at the weekend, citing parenthood responsibilities, specifically saying she's a mum (absolutely fine by me, of course). Male counsel does not cite such responsibilities. Judge issues subtle pressure to persuade her to work anyway.

But sex doesn't matter. Entirely irrelevant to our lives.

Wow, exactly like the OJ Simpson trial.

Nearly 30 years later and nothing has changed.....

'Wow, exactly like the OJ Simpson trial.'

The more things change...

Well that was very entertaining 😂

@tabbycatstripy

Absolutely fascinating discussion at the end of the hearing today. Female counsel says she can't work at the weekend, citing parenthood responsibilities, specifically saying she's a mum (absolutely fine by me, of course). Male counsel does not cite such responsibilities. Judge issues subtle pressure to persuade her to work anyway.

But sex doesn't matter. Entirely irrelevant to our lives.

Wow, really? Was the judge trying to list the hearing for weekend too?

The female counsel just needs to identify as a man, clearly.

I'll let Ben know he is appreciated! - he is very good value

"Wow, really? Was the judge trying to list the hearing for weekend too?"

No, was just listing for Friday and Monday (previously Friday was out, now it is available)

@Pawtriarchal

The female counsel just needs to identify as a man, clearly.

Problem solved!

Thank you for clarifying Maya.

@MForstater

I'll let Ben know he is appreciated! - he is very good value

How did you find him? I know all barristers should be experts; but he's right on the ball with all of it.

CGD?
OJ?

The comparison is offensive

I've used quotation marks for "gender identity" because no one really seems to know what it's supposed to mean. My go at a definition would be the degree to which someone's personality has (it is claimed) feminine and/or masculine characteristics. With that being an absolute determinant of their sex.

OMG I'm a man!!!!! So looking forward to my 15% payrise.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

I've used quotation marks for "gender identity" because no one really seems to know what it's supposed to mean. My go at a definition would be the degree to which someone's personality has (it is claimed) feminine and/or masculine characteristics. With that being an absolute determinant of their sex.

OMG I'm a man!!!!! So looking forward to my 15% payrise.

Me too. We can get it backdated right? I also want an increase based on the job I would have been offered back then too.

"How did you find him?"

Anya's recommendation. He is now also representing Allison Bailey and Jo Phoenix.

Ben (me here naming him by his first name as if we were pals..[I wish!]) was on fire today.

We should invite LE to join mumsnet. I almost thought he was GC when he admitted that for him there is no divide between mind and body... to which I thought "quite". And although he presumably meant all that matters to him is "identity"; if that were really the case why do some people transition at all? He was so close.. and yet so far to understand the issues.

I also wonder why women's offence at some of the TRAs views merit no consideration whatsoever from the offence gatekeepers...

I did feel bad for Ms Dobbie for whom having to work over the weekend clearly impinges on her caring responsibilities which are, not exclusively, but more prominent female issues. The irony... one cannot identify out of that can we?

Gutted that I had to be in the office today with meetings but am entertained second-hand by you all, thanks

Thank you to the commentators here. It's been fascinating. Sleep well tonight, Maya, it's been a great day for you. I imagine the judge was working hard to control the urge to eye-roll.

This question of “sincerity” is just such an absolute mantrap for genderism (sorry- persontrap! ). I’m amazed that people continue to use it.

By using sincerity as a measure of validity, you’re making it completely obvious that this is solely a belief system, like a religion. Sincerity of belief only matters when there is no material evidence to found something on.

Didn’t anyone involved in this read The God Delusion back in the day when Dicky Dawkins was all the rage? And if they did, dear Christ*, why don’t they see the parallels?

*other deities available, terms and conditions apply.

As someone who identifies as a corpse, I'm incredibly offended by LE's corpsephobia.

The whole point of Alice Roberts is to give corpses an identity.