Maya Forstater hearing starts Monday

[MForstater]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your support: emotional, intellectual, financial, spiritual(!) reading the Mumsnet feminism board is where this all started for me!

The case starts tomorrow.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

It kicks off at 10am - the first bit will be "admin" between the judges and the lawyers working out the timings, issues and any reporting restrictions .

Once that is all sorted the judge and the panel will go away to read (probably for the rest of Monday and all of Tuesday)

I will most likely give evidence Wednesday and Thursday.

@tribunaltweets will be tweeting the whole thing (assuming they get permission from the judge)

Links to papers will go up throughout the case at www.hiyamaya.net.

Any other questions I am happy to answer them (apart from the ones where I have to say "that is for the tribunal to hear"...)

I have made a spectators guide with FAQs etc here

Lots of love

Maya

How do you do that nauticant ? I'm enjoying today

@nauticant

LE: "The only problem with Rachel Dolezal is that she didn't have a sincere self-identity."

Aha!

This is it!

What we need is not the fabled genital checks but ... A SINCERITY CHECK.

You send a request to [email protected]. I briefly mentioned the case, I didn't give any reason or anything, and I got the simple access instructions and a PIN number a few hours later. I'm watching on a Chrome browser.

What we need is not the fabled genital checks but ... A SINCERITY CHECK.

Is that a Layla Moran thing? Like sensing auras but for sincerity?

I was once asked by the CEO if I was sincere about an apology I had made (I wasn't) I stared at him and said it was irrelevant

@nauticant

All I can say is get yourself a PIN code for the following sessions and if you can make the time, have a watch/listen. It is remarkable to witness people coming out with this stuff.

I think my head might explode if I had to watch it live.

Thank you nauticant

@nauticant

All I can say is get yourself a PIN code for the following sessions and if you can make the time, have a watch/listen. It is remarkable to witness people coming out with this stuff.

Absolutely. To see and hear it first hand in real time is extraordinary. Once you have a PIN it seems it is possible to join at any time during the proceedings.

I have just found myself pondering what Rachel Dolezal's opinion on trans self-ID may be... But that's for another day

Thanks for this thread everyone, and OP Maya of course! I can barely keep up with reading the tweets but it sounds like BC is even more impressive when listening live

How can they recognise racial self identity but then condemn it as offensive, I am confused?

They seem confused too. Very confused. If I was Ben Cooper I'd be very tempted to start asking them what year it is and whether they can name the President.

LE is saying that he simply is unable to understand MF's beliefs. I can hear BC sharpening his knife.

If I was Ben Cooper I'd be very tempted to start asking them what year it is and whether they can name the President.

LE: "I do not believe someone can be the arbiter of another's reality."

@nauticant

LE: "I do not believe someone can be the arbiter of another's reality."

Well, no.

It looks like LE has decided to be unable to find any common ground with MF, even to the point of understanding what she is saying, because he is worried that contamination of some sort lurks down that path.

Ahh, in response to LE saying he wasn't bothered about the content of the tweets, only their "tone", BC has sprung the "tweets must be read in context" trap from hours ago.

@nauticant

LE: "I do not believe someone can be the arbiter of another's reality."

And yet, LE appears to mandate a denial of Maya's material reality?

There's obviously a lot that I'm not grasping.

LE: identify is reality - without identity there's jsut a corpse

BC: I suggest that you are struggling with this because you can't step outside your own views

So if I don't identify myself according to gender stereotypes then I'm what? Dead?

Oh my word! Thanks all. I have just come in from work and am catching up!

LE = numbskull, it seems!

Andrew Doyle made a comment yesterday about Gender Identity coming up "against the brick wall of reality". I think in today's hearing Ben Cooper is the brick wall of reality. He really is very good.

Is the point to perhaps drive home that Maya's beliefs are more coherent and worthy of respect in a democratic society than her employers'?

It's certainly making her look like an atheist oppressed by religious fundamentalists who can't understand someone not having Jesus in their heart.

I think LE is doing reasonably well and overall is being pretty intelligent in some his answers, it's just that his source material is such a terrible irrational and contradictory mess.

"Without identity there's just a corpse" is lol, also offensive to people with dementia and amnesia or who otherwise can't retain much information about their own identity. Good to know he thinks they're essentially dead.

Now it's complainant 2, and mention of complainant 3.

Omg.

LE: identity is reality - without identity there's just a corpse.

...

BC: can we confirm definition of "reality"? You mean "identity"?
LE: I don't separate the two.

Am ded.

"Well she shouldn't have mentioned Dolezal", says the person talking about Dolezal