Maya Forstater is entitled to her views, but anti-transgender beliefs don’t belong in the workplace

[Trixie78]

I don't even know where to start with the inaccuracies in this article. It's making my blood boil.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/maya-forstater-rowling-trans-b1838137.html

[quote stumbledin]I was going to suggest making comments on the Independent's facebook page, but it looks like quite a few people are picking this stupid article apart.

www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/posts/10159361166056636[/quote]
The comments under the article on Facebook indicate that no one is buying what the Independent is trying to sell them.

Particularly because a few people are under the impression, from the article, that Maya Fostarter has misgendered and harassed a trans work colleague. The article has led to that ambiguity.

The realisation that she's done nothing of the sort, appears to undermine the entire article for far more people than would otherwise have been sceptical.

[quote R0wantrees]The reason that 'religions' hold the belief that our Sex is immutable is because it is immutable. Settled science. Pretty much most of the world believes it too. The sky is blue, grass is green, so I agree with Trump on one thing etc.

Project Nettie: scientists supporting biological sex
Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals and plants, including the mammalian class to which humans belong. Humans can be differentiated into two categories by their reproductive roles. Females make eggs and gestate live young. Males generate sperm to fertilise the female egg. In accordance with their respective roles, females and males have different reproductive anatomies (“biological sex”). No other reproductive mechanism exists in humans.

What is Project Nettie? Project Nettie is an online and regularly updated record of scientists, medics and those in related disciplines who, by signing their support for the Project Nettie statement (below), assert the material reality of biological sex and reject attempts to reframe it as a malleable social construct.

What is the aim of Project Nettie? The aim is to simply reassert the definition of biological sex. We do not extend our claims regarding biological sex beyond the scientific fact of biological sex. We do not feed into any political ideology.

Why ‘Project Nettie’? Sex chromosomes were, in 1905, discovered by a female geneticist called Nettie Stevens. We hope, in some small way, to honour her achievements. (continues)
projectnettie.wordpress.com/[/quote]
I'm not a medic or scientist but am so happy to know that this exists. I shall be referring to it.
Thank you very much for highlighting this, Rowantree.

That we're even having this debate, let alone that it's gone to an employment tribunal, is nuts.

Let's talk about Maya's belief. What she believes isn't about whether homosexuality, or abortion, or Islam, is good or bad. Spirited debates on those topics, as on many others, have raged over the years and continue to rage.

What she believes is: it's not possible to change sex.

That's all it fucking is. She believes in actual reality. It's like saying "she believes the earth is round" or "gravity exists".

The idea that we now have to fight for our right to express our view of reality is the thing that's insane about all this. What happened with the gay couple and the bakers etc should have no bearing. What she is fighting for is the right to describe things as they exist, not according to someone's fantasy of what they wish to be.

I just can't believe that we are expected to treat the moronic arguments of people like Robin White as if they had any merit at all. I can't believe a national newspaper actually published them.

The utter stupidity of it all sometimes becomes too much.

Sorry I didn't mean to post and run. Just after I posted someone suggested we leave it and not give the article clicks. I agreed, left it alone and forgot, now there's 6 pages to read 👍

The comments under the article on Facebook indicate that no one is buying what the Independent is trying to sell them.

Particularly because a few people are under the impression, from the article, that Maya Fostarter has misgendered and harassed a trans work colleague. The article has led to that ambiguity.

The realisation that she's done nothing of the sort, appears to undermine the entire article for far more people than would otherwise have been sceptical.

One would reasonably expect a barrister to ensure that they do not communicate in any way anything that they know or ought to know is untrue, incomplete, inaccurate, or likely to be misleading.

Indeed.

Maya Forstater does however admit to misgendering Gregor Murray in a tweet - she doesn't work with them - and then correcting herself. Poor old Ben Cooper QC accidentally misgendered Gregor Murray in yesterday's appeal.

It seems it's quite tricky for some reason not to misgender Gregor Murray.

Here is Gregor Murray.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-48295000

If, even for a fraction of a second looking at the thumbnail, you thought 'he', you too have misgendered Gregor Murray by following the English language convention of sex based pronouns...

Gregor Murray recently tweeted
"My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman?"

'They/them' in case you were wondering...

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman?"
Infantile little ferret . What a knob.

God, I'll probably be banned for that

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman
Attention-seeking twattery of a high order. Mind you, there's a lot of that about.

It seems it's quite tricky for some reason not to misgender Gregor Murray.

Pronouns in English are sex based. It is not tricky to recognise sex accurately. Women and children should not be prevented from describing adult male as men.

Previous threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3586397-Gregor-Murray-SNP-Councillor-guilty-of-verbal-abuse

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3586399-Gregor-Murray-leaves-SNP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3586910-Gregor-Murray-Dundee-Councillor-and-Misogynist-quits-the-SNP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3316098-Childrens-Convenor-Elected-Councillor-calls-women-cunts-on-Twitter-rants

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3332132-Childrens-Convenor-Gregor-Murray-resigns

@R0wantrees

The comments under the article on Facebook indicate that no one is buying what the Independent is trying to sell them.

Particularly because a few people are under the impression, from the article, that Maya Fostarter has misgendered and harassed a trans work colleague. The article has led to that ambiguity.

The realisation that she's done nothing of the sort, appears to undermine the entire article for far more people than would otherwise have been sceptical.

One would reasonably expect a barrister to ensure that they do not communicate in any way anything that they know or ought to know is untrue, incomplete, inaccurate, or likely to be misleading.

That's what I thought. The word communication kept coming into my mind. But then I realised that the article had communicated what it set out to do.

to @GreyhoundG1rl for your comment. It's still there, currently...

🤫! 😄

• Gregor Murray recently tweeted "My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman?"*

Gregor must really enjoy seeing eye rolls. Including, I'd imagine, from trans people thinking 'with friends like this...'

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman

The only legitimate response to that is "Fuck off" surely? It's very rude.

Gregor is now an internationally famous non binary. The world now understands non binary, thanks to Gregor. They deserves lots of special awards for they services to the visibility of non binary people worldwide.

Does Gregor identify as world famous or is it a real thing? One can't always tell with some people.

@Scepticaltank

Gregor is now an internationally famous non binary. The world now understands non binary, thanks to Gregor. They deserves lots of special awards for they services to the visibility of non binary people worldwide.

Yes, I guess that's true...I assume it's GC people who should be giving Gregor this award for enlightening people as to what 'non binary' actually means?

@TinselAngel

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman

The only legitimate response to that is "Fuck off" surely? It's very rude.

Aw, let him at it. Someone's sure to lunch his lights out soon.

Their! Fuck...

@TinselAngel

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman

The only legitimate response to that is "Fuck off" surely? It's very rude.

Given some of the other discussions about belief and materialisation:

Can you help me understand the context of why you feel we should give you this information? As we stand here here at the bus stop wishing the timetable was based on reality rather than aspiration - are you looking for help with a really bad seaside postcard?

Has anyone a link to the facebook independent page with the article? I've scrolled through but can't see it?

@Carriemac

Has anyone a link to the facebook independent page with the article? I've scrolled through but can't see it?

www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/posts/10159361166056636

Try this.

@Carriemac

Has anyone a link to the facebook independent page with the article? I've scrolled through but can't see it?

Isn't stumbledin's link working for you?

www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/posts/10159361166056636

My new favourite thing is to ask cis/het couples "which one is the woman?

Repulsive little worm.