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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

999 replies

umbel · 24/09/2020 15:52

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
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31
highame · 26/09/2020 11:40

Yup, we need to acknowledge that women all over are a part of this.

Onward and upward Grin there's masses still to do

FindTheTruth · 26/09/2020 11:40

DFE vs Mermaids

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
Swiftnicola · 26/09/2020 11:50

At least the Scottish Government have Mermaids new beliefs to look at, which will hopefully make them think again.

stella47 · 26/09/2020 12:00

"To me now, the phrase seems like something that was given to us" - Ayla Holdom, Mermaids Patron.

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 12:01

Yeah right... how many people tried to give them ‘there’s no such thing as wrong body’?

stella47 · 26/09/2020 12:03

So I wonder what Mermaids meant when they used the phrase "assigned female at birth"? If people aren't born in the wrong body, what did they mean by this? I thought they had been suggesting that some people had been wrongly "assigned".

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 12:04

Oh yes! If I never hear that dumb expression agin it will be too bloody soon!!!

Siameasy · 26/09/2020 12:08

It’s starting to look like gender is a pointless social construct. Even Mermaids agree.
Without gender there is no trans gender. They and their ilk rely on gender existing as a real thing for their own existence
Create a problem - then try to solve it. Emerge as victor

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 12:09

So can we say T sxxxxl now?

AuntyPasta · 26/09/2020 12:12

’It’s starting to look like gender is a ... social construct‘

Grin
NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2020 12:16

Just as a reminder, these are the criteria for diagnosis of gender dysphoria in children:

In children, gender dysphoria diagnosis involves at least six of the following and an associated significant distress or impairment in function, lasting at least six months.

• A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender
• A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the opposite gender
• A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
• A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
• A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
• A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender
• A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
• A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

You need 6 out of these 8. But 4 of these can be deleted if you remove the stereotype bullshit.

So how can any child be diagnosed with gender dysphoria?

Siameasy · 26/09/2020 12:23

That article - it’s Animal Farm.
“Some of the animals remembered-or thought they remembered”

Sexnotgender · 26/09/2020 12:31

So if you really want to play with boys toys and wear jeans rather than dresses you’re on your way to being trans? Frightening stuff.

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2020 12:38

Notice too how binary the diagnostic criteria are. Despite in this example using gender where sex would be more appropriate, the criteria refers to “the other gender” or “the opposite gender”.

These are the official criteria, by the way. This is what doctors tick off before deciding a child is eligible for puberty blockers.

Sexnotgender · 26/09/2020 13:01

As a child I’d probably have satisfied at least 5 easily. Thankfully times were different and my parents aren’t narcissistic imbeciles.

YoBeaches · 26/09/2020 13:07

A child below the age of around 9 believes that if you make something look at certain way, then it becomes it.

If you put a cat mask on a dog , the child believes the dog has become a cat.

If you put a dress on a boy the boy believes he has become a girl.

They don't have the cognitive capability to understand anything else up to that age, and this is proven.

JamieLeeCurtains · 26/09/2020 13:17

@Sexnotgender

So if you really want to play with boys toys and wear jeans rather than dresses you’re on your way to being trans? Frightening stuff.
Yes, that was me, since I was a little girl. Fucking terrifying, especially as my parents actually wanted another son not another girl.
SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 13:30

That was also my sister. And of course being the little sister, me too. Of that was today lord alone knows... apart from the fact that my parents shrugged and asked ‘ soldier or frogman action man?’

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 13:31

(We has both- and the helicopter. Eat your heat our Barbie!)

jj1968 · 26/09/2020 13:32

@OldCrone

Why have adult trans people been going around telling everyone that their male body is a woman’s body and they have no need or urgent desire to change it (“of course you’re terrified Alex, they chop your cock off!”) while at the same time doctors are offering children permanent treatments to change their bodies

If you can convince everyone that your fetish is the same thing as suicidal thoughts in vulnerable children, it makes it harder for the rest of the world to criticise your fetish.

Children are being used as a human shield for adult males with a fetish.

I know someone treated for childhood gender dysphoria around the time puberty blockers were being used overseas but not in the UK who is still furious that she had to go through what was for her a deeply traumatic experience of male puberty with lifelong effects when it could have easily been prevented. She transitioned fully as soon as she could.

It's a really nasty accusation to say that trans adults who support trans inclusive policies and healthcare for young people have some devious and conspiratorial sexual motive. It absolutely typifies the worst of this debate. Surely you can accept that the most likely reason trans adults support these policies and treatment is because we recognise it as something that might have helped us, and we don't want trans kids growing up with the same experiences we did of exclusion, bullying, self hatred and denial. It took decades for some people to get over that, so perhaps this is the reason we don't want to see it happen to anyone else instead of it being some elaborate plot ffs.

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 13:33

Puberty is traumatic for lots of people. It’s nature doing its thing.

BatShite · 26/09/2020 13:45

@Thingybob

What have we been saying for years?
I hope they are ready for the onslaught of death and rape threats that women get for saying literally exactly the same thing. Mermaids is official a terf bigot hate group, who knew?! Well hidden!
CorvusPurpureus · 26/09/2020 13:47

Ok jj1968 - so the thinking behind giving blockers to children who think they're trans, as far as you & some other trans identifying adults are concerned, is altruistic - you had a tough time growing up, wish you'd been able to opt out of puberty, & think it would be nice if children who are going to be trans in adulthood were able to do so.

Fine, I'll take your word for it that this is your motivation. Although I'm afraid I do think there are also darker forces at work behind the rush to trans children - which you may be minimising.

Anyway, here's a central problem: roughly 80% of kids who are referred for gender dysphoria grow out of it. & no one knows which child is the one in five that won't.

So prescribing puberty blockers is doing harm in the vast majority of cases. This is unacceptable. It needs to stop.

OvaHere · 26/09/2020 13:48

It's a really nasty accusation to say that trans adults who support trans inclusive policies and healthcare for young people have some devious and conspiratorial sexual motive. It absolutely typifies the worst of this debate. Surely you can accept that the most likely reason trans adults support these policies and treatment is because we recognise it as something that might have helped us, and we don't want trans kids growing up with the same experiences we did of exclusion, bullying, self hatred and denial. It took decades for some people to get over that, so perhaps this is the reason we don't want to see it happen to anyone else instead of it being some elaborate plot ffs.

What is your definition of trans?

Is it gender dysphoria = trans or is it Stonewall umbrella = trans?

Because if it's the latter, and that seems to be the most pushed interpretation these days, then transvestites/cross dressers who are very open about the kink aspect are very much included.

It's not nasty to point out this is a problem. Many of the men who cross dress as a kink or fetish have embraced the opportunity to be trans with as much legitimacy as those with gender dysphoria. The evidence for this is all over the internet.

It's no good blaming women for being 'nasty' in pointing it out. It's a problem that stems from the lack of safeguards within the LGBT and the inability of the community to do any sort of gatekeeping.

In other words take it up with Stonewall who have promoted the idea that pretty much anyone falls under the trans umbrella and is valid - acceptance without exception.

Datun · 26/09/2020 13:48

Surely you can accept that the most likely reason trans adults support these policies and treatment is because we recognise it as something that might have helped us, and we don't want trans kids growing up with the same experiences we did of exclusion, bullying, self hatred and denial

Well if we're back anecdotes again, then you might want to read the grim stream of experiences coming from women who have been married to men who come out as women.

And how no one - friends, family, wives, children, parents, had ever seen the slightest hint of them having gender dysphoria or identifying as the opposite sex until they were middle-aged.

And they re-write their history to the shock and bemusement of everyone who's ever known them.