Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

I know that none of it makes sense.

And we have seen the attention lapped up in the papers when they tell "their story"

Its our job to look at a variety of sources. If they looked into ceo if a certain organisation they would see the back ground is one of IT not psychology or medicine etc i mean you don't go to the dentist with a broken leg do you.

We don't let our kids watch 18 movies at 9 but then don't check their Internet usage?

I'm sure it must be tough but some of these people are smart enough and articulate enough to go do interviews with their local press, hound the schools and threaten with legal action if they dont do as the paremts have asked. But never once realise that there is zero medical and scientific basis to any of it.

I mean it would be different if the parents themselves seemed to be lacking in education or something but the ones that made the public news don't appear to be at all.

Also remember that parents have been fed the highly irresponsible (and subsequently refuted) suicide statistics for trans children. What a terrible, terrible burden to put on those parents shoulders. Let's see if Mermaids also try and deny ever citing those particular statistics.

Why are you assuming that an organisation's own assessment of whether they abide by the guidelines is going to be definitive here?

I guess because Mermaids and Stonewall identify as abiding by the guidelines.

Thank you to all the organisations and women who fought tirelessly and have suffered for it. These boards have been instrumental I think. 👏👏👏👏👏

Also remember that parents have been fed the highly irresponsible (and subsequently refuted) suicide statistics for trans children. What a terrible, terrible burden to put on those parents shoulders

I know it probably does sound harsh. And I know parebts have been fed alot of crap. But when you look at the whole thing , this is very much a first world problem.. in countries where no one knows where the next meal is coming from and girls can't even go to school when they get their periods, this just isn't a thing. I doubt it is in familys here , where of you rejected hand me downs on the basis of jt not reflecting your identity you would have no clothes.

Its bigger amongst the demographics who seem to have the time money and screens available to go along with it.

I have alot of sympathy I really do. Please don't think I dont. But with these long waiting lists and access ri the Internet at our finger tips, to say they have no access to any other information is false.

Many of the people on this site are drs and nurses and lawyers. Others like me are just an average mum of average intelligence with a part time job in a shop. Un remarkable in every way. We dont have anything that these other parents don't. We are jo more or less equipped to look things up than anyone else.

Some of the parents - well the ones I’ve seen plastered over social media and in newspapers - seem to be very sure if this, so lord alone knows what they will be doing now. I may sound cruel but they seem to enjoy the celebrity status of it all.

I suspect new groups will pop up.

‘in countries where no one knows where the next meal is coming from and girls can't even go to school when they get their periods, this just isn't a thing.’

Yes - this is what I’ve been saying! When you don’t know if you will survive the day, you really don’t give a xxxxx about this.

Re parents, I think it needs understood just how difficult it is to stand against automatic affirmation (which then easily sends a child down a medical path).

My gut told me the affirmation route was wrong and my daughter’s mental health went into a downward spiral over the period where her school was affirming her as a boy. Her Year Head told me to go to Mermaids for “education and support.” Many parents do and they are told that affirmation is the only acceptable way to support your child. They scare the living daylights out of parents with debunked suicide stats - but you don’t know these stats are debunked unless you really dig into it. In the meantime you are likely living with an adolescent who is presenting with a variety of mental health issues and is it SO difficult to find anyone (fortunately groups like Bayswater and Our Duty now exist) who won’t shout “transphobia” at you if you don’t affirm.

Parents are left shell shocked and panicked because they want to do what is best for their child and the messages given to them are truly frightening. When I first went onto social media questioning the affirmative approach I was immediately called a “child abuser”. I had death threats. I had dozing threats where they threatened to expose my son (as he had told us about his sister after the school told him but not us) and attack him as he left school. That’s very very hard on a parent and I think it is understandable that many parents don’t want to push back. If the school and the GP and CAHMS etc ALL tell you you need to affirm, it is incredibly difficult to question it. I know some GPs and people at CAHMS don’t push affirmation but an awful lot do and many schools are dreadful for it- you then risk alienating your child if all the other adults in their life are affirming. It’s a terrible position to be put into.

Some of the parents - well the ones I’ve seen plastered over social media and in newspapers - seem to be very sure if this, so lord alone knows what they will be doing now. I may sound cruel but they seem to enjoy the celebrity status of it all.

The 'M' word that we're not allowed to mention.

Breaking it down to simple terms, i know this is extremely simplistic and a bit risky but on the face of it I see that there is:

1. Genital dysphoria, where the physicality of my genitalia and reproductive organs observed from birth, does not align the inner perception I have of myself. My physical anatomy is not me. I can see it and touch it and it is not how I perceive myself. I am conflicted everyday between mind and body. I don't know what is the right way to present and express myself. This would be a sexual health condition by the WHOs current categorisation. I will need psychological therapy. I may need hormones and surgery as part of my treatment plan. This is a medicalised condition due to the complex and unique nature of the individuals needs. No one treatment fits all. There will be a period of transition. With certification that allows me to live more freely, safely and independently as my clinically reassigned sex.

There is a small minority of adults who would have this diagnosis. Specific care pathways are needed.

The above is what should be happening today, but is being recategorised by:

1. Everyone else. 'Gender' is a feeling; quote Mermaids ' we are trans because we are trans'. You can't see it, you can't touch it. You either feel it or you don't. It's doesn't describe your body. It doesn't describe your sexual orientation. It doesn't describe your personality or the clothes you wear. It's ok to feel it, and it's ok to not feel it. It's ok to express that you feel it. It is how you feel about yourself. It's is how you internally hold perceptions, beliefs and ideologies about men and women/ male and female. It is how you want others to see and perceive you. There is no transition from this to that. You are just you. I may need cognitive psychological support to understand my own feelings, perceptions and complexities. I will use spaces and policies relevant to my observed sex as, I do not have genital dysphoria.

And those excluded from point 1 are:

1. Children. Who should be taught about freedom of expression, equality and discrimination.

I do understand it must be a very difficult situation and I cant imagine what you are going ng through.

There are also many parebts who as pp said seek to revel in the attention ot brings . Those are the ones I struggle to not believe they should take some responsibility. I mean if you are going to open yourself up to public opinion in the paper you cant simultaneously argue that pushing back would have brought all sorts of criticism on the family. Thats whT doesn't make any sense. These parents are creating and/or contributing to the situation where their chikd is unable to back out. They take it and run with it.

rogdmum I hope people like you will be able to submit evidence at the NHS enquiry (god I wish I could find the thread)

Hugs rogdmum. You and your family have been through quite a rough time

Yes, I do agree that there are some parents who seem to revel in it. I have no words for those.

What rogdmum says is really important. It's not just children who have been gaslighted but their parents as well. And if parents decide to challenge any aspect, remember the dire trans guidelines suggesting that social services should be called on any parents expressing concerns. It's a nasty twisting of legitimate parental concerns about their children and labelling it transphobia. We saw some evidence of this from a poster on here yesterday.
These people can't be removed from schools and children fast enough.

There was a case where the parents were threatened with having their teenager removed from home if they refused to go along (this was in the U.K. - it was in the radio). In Canada there’s a dad going through the courts now and threatened with legal action if he doesn’t call his child by the ‘right’ pronoun - I forget the offence but it’s something like ABH.

That is an argument about safeguarding other children, not the trans child themselves which is what we were discussing.

No it wasn't. Ben is a biological female, who shouldn't be sharing a room with a biological male, to safeguard Ben.

Indeed, the new guidelines ensure that Alex Drummond's gender identity must now not be undermined by the fact she has a beard.

Hopefully as a representative of an extreme political view, Alex Drummond won't be going to any schools without clearly having to declare that Alex is not impartial, and alternative views will need to be presented, such as Transgender Trend, or Rachel Rooney's My Body Is Me.

JJ appears to me to be very well-informed, I'm sad to say.

JJ seems to know an awful lot of detail about all these organisations. What they think they've said, what they think they haven't said.

It's jj's self interested spin that is making them appear ignorant.

This.

On Sally's thread.

That's a TRA. Interesting what they focus on, isn't it?

@SerenityNowwwww

There was a case where the parents were threatened with having their teenager removed from home if they refused to go along (this was in the U.K. - it was in the radio). In Canada there’s a dad going through the courts now and threatened with legal action if he doesn’t call his child by the ‘right’ pronoun - I forget the offence but it’s something like ABH.

And yet MPs were telling Parliament just the other day that there were no problems or concerns in other countries that have introduced self-ID. I guess they've never heard of the problems in Canada, then, and Ireland ... because these duplicitous MPs have got their hands clamped over their eyes, ears and mouths.

It's a terrible inequality of arms. MPs can lie with impunity in Parliament, yet women's talk boards are shut down or heavily censored. Even on MN there is very strict moderation indeed and we can't really get into elements of the subject that lots of us with safeguarding training want to discuss. Sigh.

Having said that, this updating of DfE guidance is an incredible achievement.

Don’t care because it’s women being hurt mostly - not business.

@Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons

This is just amazing. Well done to every English woman who wrote a letter or raised their voice 🥃

Bye bye Mermaids 🧨

Hey! I'm not English and raised my voice many a time, donated to English court cases, wrote to Baroness Nicholson, etc! We're all in this together. A victory in England is the start of a big, big wave of worldwide backtracking. I'm proud to be part of it. Let's hope it's a tsunami of science over fantasy!

Yes Scotland is still in the merde but there’s hope...