Removal of Single Sex Sessions at Harrogate Turkish Baths

[HJ372]

In the local newsletter thing all tucked away was this.

"We're considering the removal of single sex sessions from the timetable at the Turkish Baths in Harrogate to reflect the increase spotlight on equality and balance across the world.
This change will allow complete accessibility during the opening timetable to all genders.
We see this as a positive development allowing greater access to all our customers and allows us to fully consider all genders and orientations fairly.
We would welcome your thoughts and comments on this potential change to ensure we have fully considered all views."

They then link to a survey.
wh1.snapsurveys.com/s.asp?k=159049528689

So... firstly, they aren't considering this removal because the single sex sessions are quiet or an unused service. They're doing it to 'reflect equality and balance'.

They already do mixed sex sessions so they're essentially just removing a service. What the fresh hell is this? How do we make sure this doesn't get changed?

How do I add pictures?

“All” genders? 🙄

Could it be because if someone identifies as female, they expect to come to the all female sessions. Therefore people expecting a female only session to be penis free arent getting what they expect? Making all sessions mixed removes the need for staff to judge who should be able to access a single sex session?

Who will they exclude in order to include?

That's the bottom line really. Have they surveyed the women customers regularly using the single sex slot to check how many will have to stop coming if this differentiation/diversity of provision is removed from them?

If there are TW/NB/other users really not comfortable accessing mixed sex sessions then perhaps specific LGBTWhatever sessions AND single sex sessions would meet everyone's needs. Inclusion and diversity means add, not carry out a snatch and grab raid on one group to hand More Stuff to another group to prove they're sufficiently cared about.

Or is this just the principle of nothing that nothing must every be just for females for political cookies?

How is changing from single sex and mixed sex sessions, so everyone's needs are met, encouraging inclusion? All it will mean is that some people self-exclude, who presently enjoy going. That makes no sense at all.

They really need to read up on what equality actually is. It's not treating everyone the same. Its giving them equal opportunities to access services.

So anyone only able to access the single sex sessions now have no times they can go. Its the opposite of equality

Have they surveyed the women customers regularly using the single sex slot to check how many will have to stop coming if this differentiation/diversity of provision is removed from them?

Duh, sorry, that's what the survey IS asking for - at least they're checking!

Filled it out. That’s disappointing and I hope they don’t go ahead with it.

So does this mean that they will be moving the changing and loo facilities to 'all genders' too?

It could be they have had issues with the all male sessions too (thinking it was a different type of sauna!) Having then mixed waves a lot of issues and means anyone can use it any time

I've been there. The women's sessions were fab and the presence of any man would have totally changed the atmosphere.
I imagine men who valued the all-male sessions would say the same.

There were mixed sessions too as I remember, so basically everyone was catered for.

The proposal would be regressive and reduce choice: little to do with equality or inclusivity and everything to do with appeasement.

It could be they have had issues with the all male sessions too (thinking it was a different type of sauna!) Having then mixed waves a lot of issues and means anyone can use it any time

So women and children have to act as buffer zones for men who want to get it on in a public place?

How about they go home and do it with only the consenting adults present?

Thank you for the link. I live close to Harrogate and had not heard about this proposal but was worried it might happen at some point. I attend the Turkish baths 2 or 3 times per year with friends and we always pick a women only session. The baths have a special atmosphere when it is just women. A place to really relax . As a plump over 50 woman I do not feel I am being judged by my appearance. The joy of swimming naked in the cold plunge pool is wonderful (though I have noticed over the years that more women wear costumes - not sure why) I will be encouraging friends to object

You could point out that it would be exclusionary to muslim people and as such has the potential to come across as islamaphobic 🤷‍♀️ and is hardly inclusive.

It might set enough alarm bells off for them to rethink this, i mean a Turkish bath that is effectively barring muslims really doesn't look good.

I'm assuming that they won't care about the risk to or exclusion of women or they wouldn't even suggest it

Thanks. I've used this service in the past and would be dismayed at such a change. Must every last one of our spaces, now including relaxation spaces, be infiltrated in this way? I'm also over the thoroughly inclusive questioning about my sexuality, which is no one's bloody business but my own, and which 'gender' I've been 'assigned at birth' - try neither; what a moronic phrase. My employers are also champions of this BS. MYOB!

'Invasive' - not 'inclusive'. Predictive text ...

I would never book a mixed session. There are just too many opportunities for men to commit those barely noticeable (to other men) acts of sexual aggression for me to feel comfortable. I have filled out the survey. Thanks.

I've filled it in even though I'm nowhere near. Can't stand this shit.

They did indeed scrap male only sessions in 2011 due to reports of "inappropriate behaviour" but reinstated them in 2016.
www.strayfm.com/news/local-news/2071651/male-only-sessions-to-return-at-turkish-baths/

Maybe it's the male only sessions causing the problem but they can't get rid of them and keep the female only sessions without a fuss?

I've completed the survey. I go occasionally to the female only sessions but would not really want to go to a mixed session.

The joy of swimming naked in the cold plunge pool is wonderful (though I have noticed over the years that more women wear costumes - not sure why)

For what it's worth I would not want to be naked in front of other women or see other naked women.

In additional to this being excluding to some women who are Muslim, also Orthodox Jewish women, Jehovah's Witness women, traveller women, women with Autism, all people who may be unable to access a mixed sex provision. And that's setting aside women who will self exclude because of the loss of privacy, dignity, relaxation and comfort. All of which are kind of the point of going to a Turkish bath in the first place.

Completed. Raaaar with the question on “gender” rather than sex & “assigned at birth”

I filled it in. The last question on the survey is whether my gender identity matches the gender I was assigned at birth. Ffs.