Removal of Single Sex Sessions at Harrogate Turkish Baths

[HJ372]

In the local newsletter thing all tucked away was this.

"We're considering the removal of single sex sessions from the timetable at the Turkish Baths in Harrogate to reflect the increase spotlight on equality and balance across the world.
This change will allow complete accessibility during the opening timetable to all genders.
We see this as a positive development allowing greater access to all our customers and allows us to fully consider all genders and orientations fairly.
We would welcome your thoughts and comments on this potential change to ensure we have fully considered all views."

They then link to a survey.
wh1.snapsurveys.com/s.asp?k=159049528689

So... firstly, they aren't considering this removal because the single sex sessions are quiet or an unused service. They're doing it to 'reflect equality and balance'.

They already do mixed sex sessions so they're essentially just removing a service. What the fresh hell is this? How do we make sure this doesn't get changed?

@floisme has nailed it

It's like 2 different people wrote the two halves of the survey. Lots of opportunity to say we need single sex and mixed sex sessions on the first page then lots of gender bollocks on the second page.

Filled it in even though I'm in London. I gave them a right telling off about the " assigned at birth" bollocks.

I have filled this in, and shared it with DD and DiL .

The proposal would be regressive and reduce choice: little to do with equality or inclusivity and everything to do with appeasement.

Has the feel of creating an excuse to close the place down completely. Artificially reduce demand, and then in a years time go "Oh dear, no one is using this facility. Better close it".

Are the baths in an area that property developers can be seem self abusing over ?

I'm not sure about the property developers TBH - it's the most historically complete/restored Victorian spa in the UK AFAIK. I can imagine the uproar in the middle class spa town if it were to close!

I've been to both the mixed and single sex sessions there and see absolutely no need to change it. They have plenty of sessions available for just men, just women and mixed sex. I will admit, I was younger and somewhat shocked at the number of hairy muffs on display when I first went but appreciated that there are so few spaces like this where women can just 'be' and relax. It was wonderful.

I shall be completing that questionnaire and sharing it, how disgraceful of them to even suggest this!

They wouldn't be able to develop it, as it's a listed building. But then who knows. The council spend loads of money on strange projects and sell all sorts of stuff off including their own buildings.

Have filled in and passed on to others.
Do they even realise Muslim women wouldn’t be able to go anymore, along with lots of other religious? It’s bonkers

@Bmidreams

I've filled it in even though I'm nowhere near. Can't stand this shit.

Me too and I'm in Scotland but said I attend weekly and will no longer go.

increase spotlight on equality and balance

What they're actually saying is:

"We don't want all those annoying Jewish and Muslim women to attend."

NB: for the avoidance of doubt I don't think any religiously observant woman is "annoying." I am satirising the openness, balance and equality of the Harrogate Council's thinking.

Hah ha!
Ive filled in the form in support of you OP, dont live anywhere near Harrogate but strangely we are on hols there this coming week,, the website for the baths makes it look amazing, so jealous

Iirc the baths at the Paris mosque stopped the male only sessions and it is women only now.

Just as an aside, if a parent is raising a 'theybie' and they fill in a form for DC which asks for gender assigned at birth, I wonder what they put?

This is the trouble with online surveys though. There's nothing to be gained by filling this in and pretending to live locally; the MNStalking Committee will be on this and will just send in millions of replies about millions living in Harrogate desperate to see single sex sessions ended.

This needed to be handed, on paper, to people on entry at the door over a period of a couple of weeks, where the system cannot be played for politics and this needs to be done alongside a proper equality impact assessment.

I’ve filled it in. We all should. Might make them think again.

I live within about ten miles of Harrogate. LS postcode.

But yes, doing this online seems foolishness. They should be asking the people coming through the doors, putting out ads in local papers, etc.

@Floisme

I've been there. The women's sessions were fab and the presence of any man would have totally changed the atmosphere. I imagine men who valued the all-male sessions would say the same.

There were mixed sessions too as I remember, so basically everyone was catered for.

The proposal would be regressive and reduce choice: little to do with equality or inclusivity and everything to do with appeasement.

Brilliantly put @Floisme

I've filled in too. Pointed out women who could no longer attend for religious reasons, and pulled them up on that whole what is your gender and assigned at birth bollocks at the end.

But yes, why don't they ask the females who come through the door to the female sessions? Guess they won't like the answer....

@Anonymum263

I would never book a mixed session. There are just too many opportunities for men to commit those barely noticeable (to other men) acts of sexual aggression for me to feel comfortable. I have filled out the survey. Thanks.

Back in the mists of prehistory when I used to go they had open mixed sex sessions and couples only mixed sex sessions - it was fairly universally acknowledged that if you wanted a civilised experience you went to the latter. You didn't have to actually be a couple, you just found a friend to go along with (I used to go with my best mate and her husband, and a male friend of mine).

But I always thought the single sex sessions would be lovely because you didn't have to wear a cossie if I remember correctly - never actually got round to trying it out.

We're considering the removal of single sex sessions from the timetable at the Turkish Baths in Harrogate to reflect the increase spotlight on equality and balance across the world

This is absurd. Sex segregation is woven into the DNA of Turkish baths. Does Harrogate not know this? This is an ancient cleansing tradition. It's laughable that its Western iteration doesn't understand that.

Completed!

I’m normally a lurker on FWR and but just filled this in. I’m from Harrogate, I’ve been to both mixed and single sex sessions and they’re very different. I probably wouldn’t go to a mixed session (specifically the steam room) on my own without my husband, but have been to the single sex ones on my own with a book several times and it’s fabulous.

As I remember the changing rooms open directly onto the entry corridor and are only curtained.

I paraphrased some of the pp in my response - put much more eloquently than I would manage on my own!

@Michelleoftheresistance

This is the trouble with online surveys though. There's nothing to be gained by filling this in and pretending to live locally; the MNStalking Committee will be on this and will just send in millions of replies about millions living in Harrogate desperate to see single sex sessions ended.

This needed to be handed, on paper, to people on entry at the door over a period of a couple of weeks, where the system cannot be played for politics and this needs to be done alongside a proper equality impact assessment.

Agree - we need to be more tactical. If you don't go to the baths but have filled in the survey, it's unhelpful to say so on here - you're just giving them an excuse to ignore the results.

Agree - we need to be more tactical. If you don't go to the baths but have filled in the survey, it's unhelpful to say so on here - you're just giving them an excuse to ignore the results

I agree too.

I'd rather see them get hit in the wallet and see how quickly they do a U-turn. But then of course that means many women missing out in the mean time.

I love the baths. I have never gone to a mixed seen and never would.