Removal of Single Sex Sessions at Harrogate Turkish Baths

[HJ372]

In the local newsletter thing all tucked away was this.

"We're considering the removal of single sex sessions from the timetable at the Turkish Baths in Harrogate to reflect the increase spotlight on equality and balance across the world.
This change will allow complete accessibility during the opening timetable to all genders.
We see this as a positive development allowing greater access to all our customers and allows us to fully consider all genders and orientations fairly.
We would welcome your thoughts and comments on this potential change to ensure we have fully considered all views."

They then link to a survey.
wh1.snapsurveys.com/s.asp?k=159049528689

So... firstly, they aren't considering this removal because the single sex sessions are quiet or an unused service. They're doing it to 'reflect equality and balance'.

They already do mixed sex sessions so they're essentially just removing a service. What the fresh hell is this? How do we make sure this doesn't get changed?

Gaming surveys is an unhelpful, not to mention dishonest and unclassy thing to do.

Surveys that are intended to be taken seriously are usually hardened against being gamed though. With the more serious the survey, the tougher the protection.

Be under no illusion I am local to Harrogate and I have also shared this excerpt from the local newsletter in 3 or 4 of the main Harrogate Facebook groups and the local women and men commenting on my posts are all local and also filling out that survey.
Harrogate District Network for example. Which has 15k Harrogatonians as members.

This is scarey...

Is your gender identity the same as you were assigned at birth?

Really - I was assigned an identity???

I have shared the link with some spa going friends. Gay and straight, male and female. Not one of them think this is a good idea.

That is absurd. It would be one thing if there is no demand for single sex sessions.

Unfortunately I am too far away to feel right about filling in the survey.

No, please, fill it in, even if you're not local. Harrogate gets tons of visitors, so you may well go one day!

Filled it in..

I've filled it in too. I wouldn't like a mixed session, I wouldn't go.

It could be they have had issues with the all male sessions too (thinking it was a different type of sauna!)

Oh well, don't worry then, if changing to mixed sex will inconvenience the men who go there for this purpose, then it won't happen. Meanwhile no one cares if women will stop going

In Surrey here & never been to Harrogate let alone the Turkish Baths but have filled in the form! I can't believe they would get rid of female single sex sessions - I certainly would not want to go to a mixed session.
Hopefully our voices will be heard. I'll be interested in the outcome...

For anyone who hasn't already completed the survey, particularly if you're comfortable using legal terminology, the Harrogate Turkish baths are operated by Harrogate Coucil, which means that they're subject to a public sector equality duty as well as having obligations under the Equality Act - it might be good for a few responses to remind the Council of the existence of the single sex exemptions, and examples of people who would be adversely affected by losing single sex sessions.

@Jocasta2018

In Surrey here & never been to Harrogate let alone the Turkish Baths but have filled in the form! I can't believe they would get rid of female single sex sessions - I certainly would not want to go to a mixed session. Hopefully our voices will be heard. I'll be interested in the outcome...

Sigh. Why do you feel the need to say this on here? TRAs monitor FWR. You've now given them a reason to say that the whole survey is invalid, if they don't like the result.

No wonder the TRAs have made such headway. Our side just doesn't seem to get tactics.

As an aside, the spread of the 'assigned male/female at birth' into the mainstream is one of the most astonishing things in this debate. Everyone knows that the wording is taken from the history of what happened to intersex infants in the past, and everyone knows that nobody else was assigned a sex at birth by some governing body.

External genitals of infants are observed at birth but also now often predicted from earlier scans.

If the reference is to gender roles, those may well be assigned by parents at birth, but it seems to lack imagination to argue that the remedy to that is to let people pick which of those retrogressive and sexist packages they prefer (transitioning from one cage to the other) or, for a small minority (the nonbinary one), to hope that one can choose to be free of all gendered expectation by identifying out of them but only if others are simultaneously labeled as comfortable with their own binary cages.

I doubt the nonbinary solution will stop people who look female to others from being treated with sexism but I get why it looks attractive. The negative aspect of that choice is how it leaves everyone else in the 1950s world. Like a private arrangement with what some call the patriarchy.

Taking away single-sex provision is discriminatory against Jews, Muslims, Sikhs (both male and female) and heaven knows what other religious minorities apart from traumatised women.

@Coyoacan

Taking away single-sex provision is discriminatory against Jews, Muslims, Sikhs (both male and female) and heaven knows what other religious minorities apart from traumatised women.

It may well be. But again, if there's no enforcement, there's no law.

If it is being left to well-financed pressure groups or wealthy individuals to access the courts, then all the rights in the world aren't worth a fart.

Justice on the cheap is no justice at all.