Interesting debate on Horse and Hound re trans at the moment

[FleecyMoo]

Predictably there are a lot of women defending the need to call women 'cis' but some women are trying to explain that woman is a complete word!

Is it on a Horse and Hound related subject?

I've got this vague memory that Horse and Hound, bizarrely, was one of the very first media outlets to question the unthinkingly pro-trans line being pushed all over the media a few years back.

Only thing I know about it is Hugh Grant pretended to work for them in Notting Hill

Just realised that my comment adds nothing to the debate. I should be shhh really.

Ooh. Can we have a link please?

Am I allowed to link to another forum? It's in The Club House section and you have to be registered. Doesn't take long to register and it's free. If this is against the forum T&Cs please remove!!

Tried to find the article but couldn't see a heading: what is it's title? Is it the sort of thing you can only see (even the title) unless you register?

Sorry, yes, you have to register to see the Club House section of the forum. The debate is getting really heated and one "feminist" has just called a poster who is a self-declared butch presenting lesbian "Sweet Pea". It has't gone down well as you can imagine. Pretty offensive but internalised misogyny is rife :(

Ah Nag & Dog! Haven’t read it for a long time - used to depress myself by looking at all the horses for sale that I couldn’t afford!

Waves to any HHOs on Mumsnet.

@Xanthangum

Only thing I know about it is Hugh Grant pretended to work for them in Notting Hill

Just realised that my comment adds nothing to the debate. I should be shhh really.

First thing that came to my mind too @Xanthangum

Love a bit of HHO. Surprised this is being debated. It's tends to be a little more...niche... and you know, about horses.

Wasn't a high profile master of hounds a mtf transitioner a few years ago. Accepted by everyone without any fuss.

I remember something on the Horse & Hounds ages too - and yes, I always think of Hugh Grant

We have to push on this TWAW nonsense. Everywhere we can. All the big tech corporations are massively into trans ideology - they're controlling the narrative via their super powerful forums (Twitter/FB/Reddit) and banning women for speaking about reality. And they're lobbying our government. It's terrifying.

The former Master Huntsman - now transwoman - is now a Conservative with considerable influence.

Sue Pascoe.

I would imagine there are a few women in the H and H world who will be pretty clear about the GC meaning of “woman”. There will no doubt also be a few affected by or at least very aware of the primogeniture carve out in current law....

Horse and Hound online is actually quite the hotbed of diverse political discourse. There's strong views to the left and right and a number of good centrist voices. Lots of intelligent women. It gets pretty heated when the left and the right start with the backbiting at each other though. The Brexit thread created a number of deeply entrenched enmities that spill over into other discussions. But there's usually a lot of sense too. Trans issues have come up before. Suspect there's a silent essentially gender critical majority (myself included) but there's a fairly vicious woke core that will brow beat any heretics. There's plenty of more Conservative people who don't care about being brow beaten though.

Not even horse owners are a political monolith.

I was watching some mustang stallions fighting over their mares on BBC earth last night (vicious stuff) and it made me wonder about war horses in times past - presumably they didn't have a gelding technique back then? It must have been tricky having massed stallions, or a mix, were mares just as good war horses?

Pretty sure they all know that gelding a horse doesn't make it a mare.

Only thing I know about it is Hugh Grant pretended to work for them in Notting Hill

This is literally the reason why I - a non-Brit - clicked on this thread, amazed that 'Horse and Hound' is a real thing and not just a Hollywood invention to make fun of English customs/culture (as I had thought until this very moment ).

Interesting- the horse community have always seemed accepting of the LGB community within it so I wonder if there is a helpful push from that direction? There are a lot of sensible, just get on with it types but probably balanced with a lot of ‘nice’ women with more pet horses.

It’s also one of the few sports where men and women compete directly. Although, at grass roots level women vastly outnumber men, but at elite level it’s more evenly balanced. Because it’s a sport that requires such time investment (you can’t suddenly decide to have a week off from looking after your horse for example) and it’s a more dangerous and expensive sport, many women are forced out when they have children. I don’t know if it’s socialisation or nature but women don’t seem often to be able to pass the kids to male partners for weekends on end to persue time consuming hobbies.

@deepwatersolo

Only thing I know about it is Hugh Grant pretended to work for them in Notting Hill

This is literally the reason why I - a non-Brit - clicked on this thread, amazed that 'Horse and Hound' is a real thing and not just a Hollywood invention to make fun of English customs/culture (as I had thought until this very moment ).

Many, many years ago I temped in a PR company. Print media back then catered to all sorts of niche markets (Concrete Quarterly and Pig Monthly stick in my mind). The list of UK periodicals was in a massive ring binder that was almost too heavy to lift. It probably fits on four sides of A4 these days.

FannyCann, even a breeding stallion can work (fight wars, compete in dressage, show jump, whatever), even with mares around, because they’ve learned to behave themselves. They have bern taught acceptable behaviour in public vs the bedroom, as it were.

I’d always imagined that people who spent any time around livestock, including horse breeders, would be pretty clear on the binary nature of sexual reproduction. How discouraging that that’s not so.

I’d always imagined that people who spent any time around livestock, including horse breeders, would be pretty clear on the binary nature of sexual reproduction.

Pretty sure most farmers would be, but I’ve always had a suspicion there’s something of a link between being posh and liking to wear women’s clothing. The Beaumont tended to be quite upper-class, I believe.

It's not that difficult to geld an animal, it's been done since the BCs.

Though I doubt you'd want to geld a good warhorse.

I'm imagining a whole army of indignant 'no nonsense' Princess Anne types and older men with handlebar moustaches spluttering about it all being a 'rum do'.

I’d always imagined that people who spent any time around livestock, including horse breeders, would be pretty clear on the binary nature of sexual reproduction. How discouraging that that’s not so.

I also thought this. Then got roundly told off on FB by a staunch feminist (the sort who is personally and quietly very active on supporting vulnerable women) who works with farm animals for a living, that sex IS a spectrum. She also was quiet comfortable with her friends calling me a t*rf. Her view that sex is a spectrum has lasted a couple of years now and seems unshakable.

How anybody who works with mating animals can believe in sex as a spectrum and that gender self-ID overrules biological reality completely baffles me to the point I feel embarrassed for her. I do wonder how transphobic she is by treating the male and female animals differently. Under her own beliefs, how can she possibly know that the mare is actually female?!