Non-binary from a gender critical perspective

[Babolat]

How is non-binary understood from a gender critical perspective? I’m getting tied up in knots trying to get my head round it.

Sorry, that was ‘breast enlargements for perfectly healthy, and symmetrical, breasts’

I don’t recall people trying to change passports to say “butch” or “effeminate”. So it’s not an evolution of language when people who call themselves “non-binary” want to claim it as an official marker of their identity, like date of birth.

And if it is an evolution of language, then those under 35 who use it to describe themselves should get off their narcissistic high horse and realise they’re just describing a way of expressing their personality in ways that have been done for years. That is, you're not special.

Instead, we get claims that people who bravely defied stereotypes in years gone by - like Gentleman Jack - were actually trans/NB and weren’t able to say so .

Only arseholes went around calling men effeminate if they weren't stereotypically butch though, even when I was young, and I'm well over 35!!!

Genderism is ‘get me out of here’
GC is ‘let’s work together to un-fuck things here, for everybody’

NB, believes that gender (the oppressive stereotypes of behaviour and presentation according to biological sex) is innate, but rejects those stereotypes for themself.

GC, rejects gender entirely because it’s utter bollocks.

NB, very special and unique, not like all you sad old normies.

GC, people who just be themselves without the need for special.

I don't believe in non-binary etc because I'm not a member of the Church of Genderism - it's meaningless.

From observing it though it seems to be:

• Individuals who would have been goth/emo in the past but believe in genderism/ IdPol/Queer instead, ie it's a fashion.

• Middle class narcissist males (usually white) who realise they have no cards to play in IdPol Top Trumps and want to posit themselves as oppressed and lay claim to women's rights/resources while condemning women as their oppressors as they are cis - so once again it's a power play.

Middle class narcissist females ( usually white) who think they're not like those other girls and can escape their position as women in the hierarchy by denying their sex. Obvs the rest of us dull cis women must like our oppression so that's all fine.

It's wankpiffle pure and simple, and that would be fine if it wasn't being taken seriously but those in charge who should know better....

It reminds me of how special and different I was as a teenager by rejecting normal culture and being utterly unique and cool by embracing goth culture (and looking exactly the same as all the other goths). I was too different and special to be like everyone else (unless they wore black).

Except without making significant permanent damage to my body and ending up needing lifelong medical support.

(Possibly irrelevant side note: I once wore a white sundress to a Sisters of Mercy gig sometime around 1996ish. You should have seen the looks of disgust at my non-conformity from the non-conformists 😂. It shows how strong social pressures are to stick to your tribe)

Wankpiffle - lol.

There are some excellent posts on this subject which makes this thread a great read.

Welcome back Sappho. Missed your posts.

Exactly MyCat.

I was also a goth in the 80s that's why I can see the parallels but I wasn't asking other people to validate me or for laws/culture to be changed to accommodate my goth identity.

Also white sundress???

Totally disagree @SapphosRock. It's the exact opposite of evolution.

To go from dismissing a limiting social construct for what it is, to 'honouring' the limiting social construct by pretending it's something that's normally innate and natural according to sex (unless you're very, very special and different) is a huuuge burden of assumed conformity to place on the other 99% of the population. And a huge step backwards.

And plenty of women under 35 are butch/masculine/ just themselves and don't care about meaningless labels.

Exactly TerryLeather. Not asking for anyone to change the law or how they spoke.

White sundress - I think even back then I was trying to make a point about conformity.

I accept I can be an annoying twat sometimes!

I'm joshing MyCat...I liked it when folk went a bit against the more usual goth look...I got quite hippy at one point with a very un-pc obsession with Native Americans because I was really into The Cult...fuck that'd never fly these days, so much cultural appropriation

Omg TerryLeather, how dreadful of you.

From Non-Binary Wiki:

"Nonbinary is a term that refers to people whose gender is not completely and exclusively male or female. They can identify with not having gender at all, with both binary genders, with a third identity, or an identity which can change over time. Nonbinary people fall under the transgender umbrella term, and nonbinary is an umbrella term itself, although some people use it to describe their specific gender identity too."
nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Main_Page

"Nonbinary gender is any gender that exists outside of the gender binary. That is, any gender not described by just "male" or "female". Even in societies that recognize only two genders, there are still people who find that they don't fit into those two. Despite the lack of recognition of nonbinary genders in Western binarist society, nonbinary genders are still valid identities."
nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender_identity#Nonbinary_genders

"Nonbinary (also spelled non-binary) is an umbrella term covering any gender identity or expression that does not fit within the gender binary. The label may also be used by individuals wishing to identify as falling outside of the gender binary without being any more specific about the nature of their gender.

As an umbrella term, nonbinary has similar scope to genderqueer with most nonbinary-identifying individuals also considering themselves genderqueer. However the terms have different meanings and connotations. The term genderqueer predates nonbinary by at least a decade.
nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Nonbinary

See list of 'non-binary identities'
nonbinary.wiki/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities

Male & Female refer to sex.
All humans have a sex being either male or female.

(Much of this reminds me of having Dungeon & Dragons rules earnestly explained)

You should be banned from Twitter for your past crimes.

Omg TerryLeather, how dreadful of you.

I know MyCat it's my secret shame...

Possibly irrelevant side note: I once wore a white sundress to a Sisters of Mercy gig sometime around 1996ish. You should have seen the looks of disgust at my non-conformity from the non-conformists

Haha I did very similar a few times in the 90s

The goths at my local club used to wear white shirts. They would wait all night for 'Temple of Love', invade the dance floor and in perfectly synchronised timing, chomp on the blood capsules and then flail about all gory and weeping. Ach, they were quite sweet, really.

Er, sorry, I seem to have completely missed the point of the thread.

Non binary.

It's fetishising absolutely normal behaviour, as far as I can tell. I suppose its become a 'thing' because some people have somehow failed to grasp biologcal reality, and confuse gender with sex.

The goths at my local club used to wear white shirts. They would wait all night for 'Temple of Love',

I did like that song. But would have just as happily listened to Gina G

Being non binary requires accepting sex roles and opting out of them. Obviously a gender critical person wouldn’t countenance the former.

And yes I agree with you, Scrimps. I think it takes on such monumental importance to these young people due to social media and the constant need to be "valid" (whatever that means) and label oneself and others.

I've been thinking of the increasing genders as being little more than the equivalent of a Buzzfeed quiz.
You pick the colour orange, a fitted shirt, coffee over wine and Liam out of the Hemsworths, and that makes you an Aries non-binary graysexual ambivert with Mercury on the retrograde. All very scientific.

It's understood as a load of cobblers.

And in the words of Meatloaf: 'You took the words right out of my mouth'