Nic Williams on Woman's Hour (Tuesday) talking about sport and gender identity

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1069731404488077318?s=21

Nic Williams will be debating with Beth Jones, who is an academic at Nottingham Trent www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/social-sciences/dr-beth-jones

Good to get those examples out there

Well .. they ckearky didn't want to hear the list did they.

I'm pretty pissed off that Dr Nic was cut off like that

Well done Nic. These Women’s Hour segments have been great - I wish they’d all been a lot longer and more in-depth.

That ended abruptly, plus the emphasising Beth wasn't saying no debate, what's going on there?

Train harder ladies
It’s our fault for not pushing ourselves
FFS

It's annoying when hosts say things like, "that's just one example", and cuts off. There are dozens we can all reel off at the drop of a hat, from high school to World Championship level.

There is actually a thread (yesterday) where a mum wanted to pull her DD out of a BJJ competition because she's got to fight men (because no women have entered, rather than the competition saying it's fair)

This is the only example I can think where it might be ok. Martial arts you often use your opponents strength against them. So strength isn't necessarily an advantage- the way you think and strategy is.

I do judo - as an adult in my 30's I wouldn't. I can't win. At 17 I may have been able to. Children compete mixed when there isn't enough in their catagory and girls often win.

Serena Williams if only she trained harder she could win men’s singles

What losers us women are
Lazy we are
😂😂

Giles I wonder if naming these people and talking about their natal sex had the BBC lawyers twitching or at least the producer worrying they were making the lawyers twitchy.

WH won't want to be seen to suggest that specific transwomen are cheating....which, technically, they're not as they're simply competing under stupid existing rules

At least by emphasising the fact that they couldn't get together on the day, it shuts down the bickering over who is given more of a platform and we can get on with discussing the issues. TRAs can't complain about bias if it's clear they were invited but couldn't prioritise.

The good Doctor Harrop has been spamming twitter with his "good" opinions. Don't you just love when men tell the women presenters on Woman's Hour, the one programme supposedly dedicated to women, what to talk about? I love that.

I can't believe Dr Beth thought a good option was completely mixed sports! And that women would just need to try harder. This is the actual erasure of women's sports.

This has made me more furious than any of the other interviews.

Please be kind, this is my first post in the feminism board. I’ve listen to the last part of the programme & read some of you comments. It’s not fair, women are being nudged out and all I could think of was the androgenisation of Easter European athletes in the 1970s. That was not fair. And it is now unacceptable. What is the difference between this and making it acceptable for trans women to complete in sports against women?

I think Jane cut i5 off cos was so obvious how the argument from jones was so pitiful
And Cripes we can’t have bbc showing bias towards women in

Yyhades
There was a hint of panic in her voice there.

Think it gave the audience a glimpse of bow shut down it all still is even though there have been pockets of discussion allowed to air.

It's very much "sssh or dad will hear and we will be in trouble "

We make life choices that mean we don't progress or stay in STEM?? Fuck off.

Women's Hour twitter has been lit up by trans-activists telling them not to talk about it too.

Women - don't you dare talk about women's sport being erased. It's going to be mixed. Or you have to accept transwomen winning everything. Don't complain! Be nice!

Can I be the 94th to just say AAAAARGH.

Can just anyone get a phd these days? I wish I had been more over confident in my abilities when I was younger.

But also, although JG has done really, really well in getting this series on air at all, and moderating the discussions, I was really gutted to hear her almost ridicule Dr. Nic near the end on the "surely that's an exaggerated apocalyptic vision of the future of women's sports" thing. "That's just one example?" Sorry, but wise up, Jane

It was great that dr nice used male bodied
Was really really clear to everyone what this was about
Male bodied ppl in women’s sport
Boom

More examples can always be given on their social media though.

So women ''cap their capability psychologically" playing just other females eh Beth?

Our fault for not stretching ourselves .

The 'cis' business at the start had me shouting at the radio within seconds. It's come to something when the word 'women' won't even be uttered and instead we have to be relegated to 'people who aren't trans'. And then as soon as it's - very politely - questioned there's a whole load of utter flannel about not being able to say what percentage of people might 'identify' as women.

I honestly never thought I'd live in a world where madness like this existed.

Jane Garvey makes the points the trans lobbyist should be making, were they to debate, and getting them comprehensively refuted by Nic Williamson. A very good tactic as if anything NW being put under more pressure than her opponent, and WH can’t be accused of bias.
No one who has ever participated in sport can be under any illusion that men in general are not bigger, stronger, faster than women. NW was right to emphasise common sense. Most people would think “why do we need research into this? It’s bloody obvious”.
I think the cut off was the time factor.

I turned it off when her explanation of cisgender was 'someone who doesn't question their gender' as if we're all just hoodwinked and haven't woken up yet.