Nic Williams on Woman's Hour (Tuesday) talking about sport and gender identity

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1069731404488077318?s=21

Nic Williams will be debating with Beth Jones, who is an academic at Nottingham Trent www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/social-sciences/dr-beth-jones

there are artificial derivatives of testosterone such nandrolone trenbolone methenolone etc but if you take testosterone it's the same as the testosterone which is produced by the body

Elite sports - segregated by how hard you try.

I am taking part in the Couldn't Be Arsed At All 20m Dawdle this year. Obvs I am training right now as I sit here with my brew and biscuit.

As Posie says, if you include men then you exclude women.

How has that not even been considered when the boundary pushers put forward their ideas to governing bodies etc?

there are artificial derivatives of testosterone such nandrolone trenbolone methenolone etc but if you take testosterone it's the same as the testosterone which is produced by the body

The consequences/ side effects on the bodies of males and females will be different.

also the way in which the hormone /medication is delivered etc will be different to onlgoing naturally produced with consequences.

Just to reiterate my earlier post, even where elite female athletes have been suspected of taking banned performance enhancing substances (the current 100m, 200m, 400m and 800m women's records all fit this description), they are still only as fast as top level 13/14 year old boys

Olennas If only they made a bit of effort, eh?

According to Dr Beth women athletes hold back when competing because it's not polite or feminine to beat other women

however we shouldn't be concerned about that because the top female athletes are actually masquerading as men and taking part in the men's competitions
Who knew😳

so that proves that men and women should all be competing together in one big category 🙂

isn't that right Dr Beth?
(🤣🤣🤣)

Wordthe haven't you got it yet ?
Women must just try harder !
I'm not saying that to Nicola Adams

Shit the bed, I'm going on WH on Monday, to be interviewed by Jane bloody Garvey.

(not about trans issues)

If I get to sneakily say something to her before / after the show, what do we reckon I should say to her, re her masterful hosting of the trans debates over the last 2 weeks?

Maybe wear an 'adult human female' tshirt to make it easier to broach the subject...

V exciting

Wow banana go you! Tell her how much support there is for her hosting this debate.
Ask her how we can keep the spotlight on this issue? As a broadcaster who has no doubt faced some tough ‘monitoring’ on this, what is her view on how we achieve more and wider coverage on the issues for women of TRA, GRA and self ID?

@bananafish81

Yay! I would ask her how we can get the BBC to give this more air time.

like haha that would do the job! Might make the photos a tad tricky (also me not having one probably also doesn't help!). But I'm thinking I'll wear my 'nevertheless she persisted' sweatshirt (that I wore to the LAWS event on Friday)

If we could get one in time I could bring one as a gift, although not sure if she'd be able to accept it (and I suspect she wouldn't be able to wear it round the office like JHB )

very impressed bananafish81

I'd tell her how pleased you were to hear the BBC finally airing this debate and that all your friends (we're your friends right?) enjoyed it, talked about it all the time and want to hear more

Ooh i'd love to get her one as a present even if she just slouched around at home wearing a pair of joggies with it!

These are great - thank you! I will do my best

I'm not sure if we get an intro before / after the show, I hope so (as I really want a photo with her!) but will aim to say something after the recording as don't want to get off on a tricky note right before the interview.

But will deffo aim to say something afterwards - not sure of the exact format, the producer is going to send me a confirmation email with timings etc.

Fuck, now I have to try and not make a tit of myself live on air. And also not say fuck.

Don't worry. Remember to listen. Answer the questions like you are chatting to a friend and she won't want you to make a tit of yourself and will come to your rescue if you flounder. Maybe read something out loud with long tricky words before you go in order to get your tongue, lips and teeth woken up and active.

apologies for the slight derail.
Good luck for Monday bananafish

re Dr Beth Jones, from her university page I was interested to note:

'Sponsors and collaborators
Beth’s main collaborators are Prof Jon Arcelus and Prof Walter Bouman from the University of Nottingham. She has also worked internationally with Dr Tim van de Grift (Amsterdam University Medical Center), Dr Cecilia Dhejne (Karolinska Institutet), Dr Griet De Cuypere (Ghent University).

Beth has also worked collaboratively with the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health, Gendered Intelligence, Leicester LGBT center and Cancer Research UK.``

Cancer Research UK ran the widely-criticised campaign for 'people with cervixes' and have removed most of the woman/female descriptors from gyny cancer descriptions

Thanks all, and sorry for derailing. Appreciate your input and will do my best!

Have been engaging in a Twitter discussion with JG about the acceptability of the term dildocam on air on Radio 4. This exchange does now mean that when I do actually meet her on Monday that I'm going to be 'the Twitter dildocam woman'. Good to make a memorable first impression and all that. Ahem.

I'm up for taking her a gift from her MN GC crew if we can think of one and sort it out in time. But probably one for another thread as I've derailed this one far too much!

Sincere apols, back to normal service

banana

Could you point her towards those two Medium articles? The one today by ‘Sue Donym’ on puberty blockers And the previous one - search the word ‘transborg’ in titles only and you’ll get it. Can link later if needed

Oh my god I am jealous bananafish. In my sad fantasy life I know JG and we plot together to take over Radio4, fire John Humphrys, cancel You and Yours and basically put GC feminists in charge of all the programming.

I have actually met her - she was fab. But showed no interest in the slightly crazy lady rattling on at her about the Today programme.

Bananafish - re gift - would about a really violet enamel brooch for 'literal violence' (from a recent thread sorry can't remember which one)?

A subtle suffragette marker with a cheeky twist 😉

Re question, I'd love to ask her a Q about BBC policing of the debates .. clearly she's not going to admit it but I'd just like to see her reaction

Very exciting btw! Will you update us after?

Only just caught up with both the programme and the thread. Totally agree with discussions above.

Hope the interview goes well Banana