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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Nic Williams on Woman's Hour (Tuesday) talking about sport and gender identity

533 replies

OrchidInTheSun · 04/12/2018 06:00

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1069731404488077318?s=21

Nic Williams will be debating with Beth Jones, who is an academic at Nottingham Trent www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/social-sciences/dr-beth-jones

OP posts:
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littlbrowndog · 04/12/2018 22:17

Fuck em
They so hating and fearing this thread
All laid out bare for examination

littlbrowndog · 04/12/2018 22:18

Male bodied ok I think

VovoBickie · 04/12/2018 22:20

perhaps women kind of cap their capability, psychologically, because they're competing against other women

Still can't get over this. It's certainly pissed off a lot of women's hour listeners on twitter! Good job, Beth!

PencilsInSpace · 04/12/2018 22:29

The more I think about the way Woman's Hour have handled this debate, the more impressed I am.

The whole 'giving equal weight to both sides' thing is perfect Grin

It takes away every excuse - 'we didn't get to put our views to the listeners', 'our views weren't taken seriously', 'Jane Garvey was too harsh to our side' (I think she has done her utmost to be fair in every conversation, but is obviously gender critical.) Those that refused to debate were accommodated anyway, removing the #nodebate excuse, and the other participant was frequently reminded that they weren't there to defend themself, even though it was their own silly fault.

BBC Woman's Hour has tremendous reach.

The little boy would never have been able to point and shout 'the emperor has no clothes' if there had never been a parade Smile

andyoldlabour · 04/12/2018 22:32

SophoclesTheFox,

Best post so far IMHO.
I went to cycling from running and within 18 months could beat any female in the UK over 10 miles.
I am not bragging, because it is down to physiology, and these transexperts are muddying the water,
This is a serious situation, and I do not wish to see the Team GB pursuit squad - Jo Rowsall, Laura Kenny, Kati Archibald etc. lose to men masquerading as women.
That would be cheating pure and simple.

LangCleg · 04/12/2018 22:53

BBC Woman's Hour has tremendous reach.

Talking about it in my local shop when I went in for milk earlier. Unimpressed is a polite way to put it.

PencilsInSpace · 04/12/2018 23:04

My mum and all her church and U3A mates listen to Woman's Hour.

WI members listen to Woman's Hour. The government don't like them when they're .

Binglebong · 04/12/2018 23:07

Thanks Pencils. I shall enjoy it.Grin

ToeToToe · 04/12/2018 23:09

Every person I know in real life is completely baffled by gender ideology and by transwomen competing in women's sports.

This tweet sums it up so completely twitter.com/MeenaCreek/status/1069960122829602816

ToeToToe · 04/12/2018 23:11

For people who don't click on links - that is "Female sports are for women."

And a list of male v female sports records.

ToeToToe · 04/12/2018 23:17

And my mum listens to Woman's Hour - and she's totally with us. Human beings cannot change sex.

Terfing · 04/12/2018 23:32

I think sports is what will win this debate overall. The photos speak for themselves.

MadnessPrevails · 04/12/2018 23:38

After falling down a google rabbit hole I came across this:

www.olympic.org/news/spotlight-on-shan-zhang

It's a profile of Shan Zhang, the first and last woman to win a mixed shooting event in the Olympics. She set a new Olympic record too. This was in Barcelona 1992, and after this the event became single sex. Does anyone know more about this? I know nothing about shooting, but I think there are still some mixed sex events. Surely this category wasn't changed because the women were getting too good?!

papayasareyum · 04/12/2018 23:41

The trans women in sport issue is what makes the TRA argument look spectacularly ridiculous and they know it.

HerFemaleness · 04/12/2018 23:52

Why can't men's sports become 'gender inclusive'?

NotTryingHardEnough · 05/12/2018 00:02

Sorry but I couldn't resist name-changing. Just too tempting.

arranbubonicplague · 05/12/2018 00:06

Alex Sharpe's additional contribution that incorporates Woman's Hour's discussion about sports:

twitter.com/AlexSharpe64/status/1070018613271252992

Stay focused. Behind arguments about fairness in sport, skewing of violent offending stats, unnecessary NHS smear tests ... lies a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether. It is all in plain view ppl.

MrsWooster · 05/12/2018 00:20

I saw Alex Sharpes tweet earlier and thought "duh uhhr!" The whole point of this is protecting women's spaces and it is scarcely news that gc people dont share the religious belief that TWAW? Alex seems rather to have blown the gaffe on the TRA pretence that we 'hate trans people' and 'want to erase them' (whatever that means). Trans people are like any other group; they're just not magic and they cant change sex.

Datun · 05/12/2018 00:22

Stay focused. Behind arguments about fairness in sport, skewing of violent offending stats, unnecessary NHS smear tests ... lies a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether. It is all in plain view ppl.

Eh? It was always in plain view. It's the entire point!

What on earth did they think was the reason?

Ereshkigal · 05/12/2018 00:26

What on earth did they think was the reason?

Do they really have so little clue, or is this just disingenuous to make it sound like that is the most bigoted thing anyone could possibly imagine?

OldCrone · 05/12/2018 00:36

a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether. It is all in plain view

Has Alex only just realised this? Bit slow on the uptake. Especially as it's all in plain view.

KinCat · 05/12/2018 01:15

I thought this was the best discussion of the series. It was clear and very relatable to lots of women. The others were a bit esoteric.

Outrageous that women just need to "try harder" to compete on the same level as men. Perhaps we should do away with the Paralympics..if disabled people were only given the right motivation and environment they'd be able to compete on a level with able bodied people. Heck we should just get rid of wheel chairs etc., having to drag themselves through the dirt should be the motivation these people need to do better at walking.

AspieAndProud · 05/12/2018 03:03

Behind arguments about fairness in sport, skewing of violent offending stats, unnecessary NHS smear tests ... lies a desire to exclude TW from women-only spaces and, of course, from the category 'woman' altogether. It is all in plain view ppl.

Shit - they’re onto us!

Who squealed?

KinCat · 05/12/2018 03:35

Maybe now they've understood the point they'll engage in debate...or start to understand what women have been talking about!

arranbubonicplague · 05/12/2018 03:46

Behind arguments about...

Usefully enough, there's no reading between the lines or interpretation involved as WPUK has helpfully formulated the 5 Demands and published them, in plain view, on a website:

Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard.

The principle of women-only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.

A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act (which allow for single sex services, or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice.

Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces.

Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.

womansplaceuk.org/our-5-demands/