Janice Turner: "When self-identification trumps biology, men can be women, white can be black and age really will be just a number"

[TimeLady]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/if-identity-politics-win-a-man-of-69-can-be-49-bqh6rsjqw?shareToken=4fd4aac12f70686bfe4311abe13e7c50

Pretty much backs up what Trevor Philips was saying last month

Well put, Ms Turner. There's no reason to accept the distortion of one biological reality and then to deny others.

And in a similar vein in The Spectator

Why I’ve changed my name by Rod Mbunga Liddle

Does this argument from the left ring a bell with you? Imagine if Anthony did not identify as being black, but identified as being a woman and decided to call himself Antonia (which I suppose he may well do next week if he feels like it). Then, all of those objections would be rendered null and void by the liberals. He is not actually a woman? Doesn’t matter one bit. Indeed, his identification as a woman when he is palpably not a woman places him in an even more protected category than if he really were a woman. He hasn’t suffered sexual oppression as real women have? Nah, he has suffered more.

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/why-ive-changed-my-name/

The article was well-written and reasoned. Turner makes good points. I particularly liked the quote by Judith Butler that 'gender is a “performance”: you are a woman because you act out womanhood. Biological sex, however, is not real, merely a social construct.'

So true

Wonderful coverage in two respected publications; coming at the problem from a 'non feminist' angle will surely educate and stimulate debate among many. Just a shame/outrage/insult they didn't listen to us right from the beginning and just took a minute to think about the alternative universe that is being proposed.

Both have provided such a simple argument against the general concept of self-ID

Rod again:
At least until reality intrudes — when the whole chimera falls to pieces because it is devoid of rationality, internal logic and common sense.

Sums it up, really

I did not know about Judith Butler or that she is the source of new ideas. Could anyone point me to sources that pithily explain her ideas, to save me from reading an entire book?

Great article, Janice. Thank you!

This is great Janice and exactly what we’ve been saying all along, so it is brilliant to have a Times article to share with friends who are halfway there but pulled by their liberal roots (aren’t we all?)

Thanks Janice for all you do

My trans daughter has been traumatised by the hatred and vitriol against trans women. She no longer feels safe anywhere. The anti trans movement are like hunters, using every method to grind down, humiliate and snare their prey

That's terribly sad, F4. Which is why it's so important to have articles like Janice's, pointing out that the GRA was intended to protect people who "present" as the opposite sex, and who have always existed, throughout history, from prejudice and discrimination - without expecting us all to sign up to the magical thinking that one can actually change sex. Of course people who identify as trans should live in a free and tolerant society, and be protected from discrimination. I think we all agree on that one.

You can't be what you are not. The internal conflict will erupt sooner or later. That's nature.

Hamilton your attitude depresses and disgusts me. My daughter is scared to go out because of the transphobia that is being whipped up by rad fems. She is depressed because she is being likened to rapists. It’s hideous, scarey and deeply worrying and upsetting.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Butler

Has she been at the sharp end of hatred or does she fear what she sees on social media (which is a load of nonsense)?

Great article.

That is another great article. Thanks for sharing.
Clear, well reasoned, balanced.

That's rather a distortion of the facts, though, isn't it? Of transwomen, only a tiny minority will be rapists (just as only a minority of men are rapists). Radical feminists are not saying all transwomen are rapists - that would clearly be stupid. All we're saying is that the tiny minority who are should not be put into women's prisons, where (see Karen White) they re-offend against vulnerable, literally captive women. Perhaps your efforts would be better directed towards allaying your daughter's fears than making shit up on the internet in order to reinforce those fears.

Try and engage with he article in discussion Feminisr4 instead of emotional blackmail.

Anyway, back to Janice Turner's article, which is excellent.

👏👏👏👏💐 thank you Janice. So articulate and to the point as always

This article is so good, no wonder someone is trying to derail the thread.
There is no hate in this article.

Brilliant article.