Stella Creasey is on a guest post invoking SEX as a protected characteristic for legislation!

[BarrackerBarmer]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/3355761-Stella-Creasy-guest-post-If-MNers-act-today-you-can-help-make-street-harassment-a-hate-crime

Right now!

I thought HQ pulled threads when they became holier than thou

What does it mean when someone can’t receive pms? Are they banned?

Oh dear, MN web chats have gone so well over the last week haven’t they.

I would suggest best thing to do would be contacting your MP and asking them to make sure it is clarified in the debate. Because this is not going to answered on that thread. If enough people ask, surely they will listen? Or is this wishful thinking?

Looking at the thread and sighing!

I agree with tiredandweary saying that it's an important issue and a shame if the thread goes awry and, of course, it did.

That said, not at all well handled by MNHQ. If you invite on one of the most prominent TWAW Labour MPs in the very week an epic scandal has erupted in the Greens over this issue, you're going to get a lot of angry women who want answers to their safeguarding questions and real time access to a politician who is supposed to be accountable.

How stupid to not have pre-primed Creasey that this would happen so that Creasey had a rapid response ready, could give it, and then move on to her bill.

And how stupid to double down on that by rudely deleting any uppity dissenters, thus cementing their conviction that nobody is prepared to be held accountable for public statements in favour of policies that generate safeguarding failures.

Sorry MNHQ. You did not shine with glory there.

" If enough people ask, surely they will listen? Or is this wishful thinking?" - as Mumsnetters said to the NSPCC

[sigh]

Maryz

I agree with LangCleg
At the time I couldn't see how it could have been handled better but, yes MNHQ should have anticipated this.
Having said that, I am uncomfortable that a really important issue was hijacked by this. Stella Creasy is a good constituency MP and she faces an uphill battle to be reselected. She also puts her head above the parapet for women's issues time after time. I totally disagree with her views about TWAW etc but that doesn't stop me recognising a bloody good woman and feminist MP.
She has to face the misogynists day after day, including those itching to deselect her and I'm not going to add myself to the list of those opposing positive measures for women because I'm frustrated at her views on TWAW.

'Why grandma, what big teeth you have.
All the better to eat you with my dear'

Not buying it, sorry. Read between the lines. They are asking women to be complicit in their erasure. Stonewall's involvement is huge red flag for me.

"we're asking the Government to commit to a full review of all hate crime which includes misogyny"

As posie asked on the other thread, if a trans women abuses a woman is that misogyny? What other hate crimes do they want reviewing exactly?
If they can't get speaking about our pesky biology made a hate crime they will find a work around. Like adding xy to the definition of women then they can claim anything GC is misogynistic because of their legal sex status.

Maryz I know, it's unlikely. Ever the optimist me Not really, but I am despairing at this point and willing to hope for a miracle!

Stella's belief that transwomen are women is misogynistic

Agreed.

I’m not forwarding this onto anyone else lest it sew women up onto a tight little box under law, that includes male bodies.

It is impossible to have a dialogue about women's issues with a person who denies what and who women are.

Without mutual understanding there cannot ever be progress.

It's pointless for a twaw advocate to talk about issues specific to women whilst simultaneously holding the view that every single member of the human race might, by virtue of a declaration, be a woman.

I don't understand why they bother. There can be no specific issues or oppression unique to a class of people if every single person can be in that class and there is nothing differenting them from any other class, save for the three particular consonants and two vowels on their label.

I can't engage with this nonsense thinking.
This dishonesty.
Having to guess, constantly, which version of 'woman' the speaker might mean, and whether they mean the opposite in fact.

Would Stella support any measure which protected the female sex, IF it meant being accurate and truthful and factual and this excluded every member of the male sex from coverage under that particular measure?

The upskirting thing I can support, and I'm amazed it refers to the protected characteristic sex.

The misogyny proposals I have no doubt will be written to bake into our laws that woman means blah and misogyny means hatred of blah and to prove misogyny you have to identify as blah and agree that you are part of a common group of other blahs.

You can have some rights, but only if you "repeat after me" that twaw and you are exactly the same as they are.

So this thread is back

I've just been deleted for saying that deleting and reinstating posts, and then telling posters they've said things they haven't said is gaslighting.

ffs

The gas lighting on that other thread!
I’ve felt the need to screenshot all of my posts on it.

It's all a bit of a shit show, currently.
I wonder if this is the new #no debate? #debate but only within these parameters I have set?
Furious calls of derailing and silencing other voices, as if there is limited space for debate.
But then again my paranoia has begun to get the better of me.

My replies on that thread were before I read this one. Yes it is suspect that stonewall (arguably one of the most misogynistic organisations around, in their current form) were consulted on this. This does make me suspect this ammendment, and the reason for it.

I don't understand how posters asking about self ID and such are stopping others from contributing to the thread. Nor how GC posters are apparently making people miss this once in a lifetime opportunity for women. HOW? Stellas not engaging anyway, so surely every post made bumps the thread so more women actually see it.

Bit sick of this new trend of accusing GC posters of being either anti-children or anti-women mind.

It is impossible to have a dialogue about women's issues with a person who denies what and who women are.

This

Looks like I've been banned for the first time in 17 years.

Oh well, nice knowing you all.

I think it's bed time

As in, I've been logged out and can't log back in.

Oh no maryz that is bad news. Proper shitty. I'm sorry.

This is what I was trying to post:

That thread is making me feel physically ill.

I haven't found you lot on Reddit (or wherever you are) yet, but I might have to.

I can't believe they deleted ReluctantCamper's post (and mine), reinstated it, and then lied about it

Another one agreeing with Lang. Stella is a politician - if she'd been prepped that this was a question likely to come up she'd have had an answer ready, and expected the question to come up. MNHQ must have known it would come up. Any egg on their faces is due to not planning appropriately, and should not be blamed on the wimminz being too uppity.

As I said on the other thread:
And what’s the betting if this doesn’t go through it will all be down to Mumsnetters? Despite us only being approached late in the day, the day before.