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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Is it a crime to say women don't have penises: James Kirkup article

120 replies

Wanderabout · 19/08/2018 10:09

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-it-a-crime-to-say-women-dont-have-penises/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 18:41

Hackman They are all him! All his statues comes from a cast of his body. Its an interesting question but would be specifically, 'is his/her penis female?'

Melanippe · 19/08/2018 19:09

hack, it’s just fine for children to see a cast of Gormley’s actual penis, but if you put a sticker on it to factually point out that women don’t have penises, it’s likely to be deeply traumatising to children.

hackmum · 19/08/2018 19:19

R0wantrees: I didn't know that! That's very funny.

And lol at Melanippe.

Truly we are through the looking-glass...

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 19:45

hackmum
Yes, the Angel of the North is also cast based on his proportions (and with wings added!)

Mamaryllis · 19/08/2018 19:48

More congrats chollo- twatter is losing its collective mind and you have really helped to ramp up the stickerwoman publicity. It would be great if it could be clearer that the sticker campaign is in progress across the country - more media interest and a few national bites to raise awareness that this is a political response to women losing rights, not anti-trans, would be awesome.
You ladies are all ace. BrewCake

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 19:52

Gormley speaks about his motivation in this program from 2000:
www.bbc.co.uk/archive/sculptors/12808.shtml

There have been a lot of articles since when he talks about it with regards the true-scale sculptures.

Ereshkigal · 19/08/2018 20:00

Have I got this right?

Yes, I think that's about it!

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 20:04

Also, for those who haven't been. The statues at Crosby beach are dressed up regularly. I think the reason they stayed at Crosby rather than been relocated to another place (as planned) was how much they were embraced by people living or visiting them. A lot was talked at the time about the interactions between people and the statues.

For anyone hoping that there might be a court case etc against someone who sticks a sticker on them, they are likely to be disappointed! Also the statues are submerged regularly by the tide.

Angryresister · 19/08/2018 20:07

Glad to see Fox and Owl have made such profound comments to Prick News...are they the go to non binaries these days? I think they must be( answers own question)

Ereshkigal · 19/08/2018 20:10

The sticking of the sticker is the crime (vandalism, littering)

They would have to know it was you. Otherwise it's massively tenuous. There's no offence of incitement to hatred with transphobia unlike racism.

www.galop.org.uk/transphobic-article-in-the-observer/

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 20:26

I'm sure I c&p ed similar quotes from a PN article by them last week too.
It's a bit bizarre the claim that they make about access to the media given the amount of media that they both have.

Both regularly comment on trans and non-binary issues.

Atthebottomofthesea · 19/08/2018 20:43

take action against such disgusting and reductive statements

Well, I am pretty glad that I gave away the anatomy and physiology book that I used for my degree then, seeing that it is full of nonsense. Lucky escape there I think.

Ereshkigal · 19/08/2018 20:53

^I'm sure I c&p ed similar quotes from a PN article by them last week too.
It's a bit bizarre the claim that they make about access to the media given the amount of media that they both have.^

YY. I'm wondering if they live in the PN office.

FloralBunting · 19/08/2018 21:12

Well, let's face it, nothing says inclusive to the point of ridiculousness like asking Enbys called Fox and Owl to sound condescendingly outraged about cartoon penises.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 19/08/2018 23:41

I'm just really upset that Fox and Owl aren't another fake 70s comedy double act (like Fish and Chips). They really need to tour Yorkshire working men's clubs before breaking out on New Faces...

ijustwannadance · 20/08/2018 01:45

What I don't get about fox and owl is why go through the ops to trans their bodies to look as much like the opposite sex as possible to then be non binary. They are still adhering to gender stereotypes anyway.

The Mayor loves everyone except biological women.

Bellend.

YouMustNotTellLies · 20/08/2018 01:49

They will not sell the Sun there because of Hillsborough so I don't see any change of labour rule in Liverpool.

They can hate on females and still get elected.

silentcrow · 20/08/2018 07:53

Glad to see Fox and Owl have made such profound comments to Prick News...are they the go to non binaries these days? I think they must be( answers own question)

They've got a book out for teens, you know! All this entirely selfless press interaction has nothing to do with making a few quid out of vulnerable kids.

Charliethefeminist · 20/08/2018 08:07

Erstwhile trans people now identifying as non-binary is growing, largely because of a push to protect the NB identity under the law. A lawyer advising the government on this has said openly there are very few gaps in the law protecting the trans umbrella. One of these 'gaps' is the protection of NB and offering it legal status. That's why we are seeing NB here, there and everywhere. It's part of the PR project to give visibility to a frankly risible belief system. Most people who aren't vested in this either way can have a vague, fudged idea and sympathy over 'born in the wrong body'. But NB tends to provoke more puzzlement and cynicism. So hence the PR drive.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2018 09:06

I guess we have to hope that focus on 'non-binary' actually helps raise awareness of the difference between gender and sex. By all means have protection for people to express non-binary identity (it could be helpful in breaking down gender stereotypes) but that stops at the entrance to facilities which are segregated by sex.

R0wantrees · 20/08/2018 09:20

Is the logical conclusion of non-binary ideology validation that people who identify this way are not restrained by segregated services, spaces etc if these are based on gender rather than sex and therefore can and should be able to access both?

FloralBunting · 20/08/2018 09:25

R0wan, yes, in a very real sense, claiming to be 'Non-Binary' could be a ticket to some actual, genuine privilege for them.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2018 09:40

The logical conclusion should be that no space or service needs to be segregated by 'gender', but some do need to be segregated by sex. As is currently the case, this is the law. Non-binary shows up the foolishness of conflating sex and gender.

R0wantrees · 20/08/2018 09:43

It was listening to the BBC interview with the schoolchild (its on another thread so I'll have to go find it) and I had a lightbulb moment.

The child (born female) was primary school age and asserted that they should have access to both toilets because of identifying as non-binary. That this was what was 'wanted' and 'should' be granted. That rather than being neither boy or girl, was both. This seemed to be clearly reinforced by the mum who also referenced online groups as a source of information for the child's grandad.

Although its a child speaking, the narrative seems to have been absorbed from adults.