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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it a crime to say women don't have penises: James Kirkup article

120 replies

Wanderabout · 19/08/2018 10:09

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-it-a-crime-to-say-women-dont-have-penises/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 14:37

Hospital doctor responds to BMJ article, 'Trans health needs more and better services: increasing capacity, expertise, and integration'

"Where is the proof that sex can be wrong or change?
What will happen to doctors who cannot go along with this?"

Richard Byng, GP and Professor in Primary Care Research
Susan Bewley, Chair of Health Watch; Damian Clifford, Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist; Margaret McCartney, GP and freelance writer response:
(extract)
"Sex is not “assigned”, but determined at conception and in early embryonic life. Biological characteristics of male and female have “historically” been observed at birth and likely this will continue. Sex should not be confused with gender - a social construct. Although internal subjective identity, legal status and external appearance can change or be re-aligned, a person’s underlying biological sex cannot."

www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3371/rapid-responses

Is it a crime to say women don't have penises: James Kirkup article
BarrackerBarmer · 19/08/2018 14:58

Has anyone reported Merriam Webster to Merseyside Police yet?

Shocking hate speech here

Is it a crime to say women don't have penises: James Kirkup article
ErrolTheDragon · 19/08/2018 15:04

Along with every other dictionary, medical website and Wikipedia.

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 15:07

I wonder if Dr Harrop has ammended his medical text books?

howonearthdidwegethere · 19/08/2018 15:12

It'd be awful if lots of folk were to tweet/email Merseyside Police demanding that they investigate and the Liverpool Echo demanding that they cover the story.

Wink
heresyandwitchcraft · 19/08/2018 15:12

Who knows, maybe he's just added some post-it notes and used a marker to redact anything too offensive....

CholloDeNombre · 19/08/2018 15:15

Liverpool ReSisters press release

liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com/

WarmWishes · 19/08/2018 16:30

Just want to say to Liverpool Resisters - what a brilliant, brilliant job you are doing to get the word out. It's been reported by the Echo. People are commenting. Not everyone gets what it's about in relationship to women's spaces and just automatically think 'transphobes' but there will be many intelligent people who silently read comments that do. It's actually a coup that Harrop tweeted Anderson and now the word is getting out. So thanks doc!

I led a successful campaign on something quite unrelated once. It was reported on and attracted many scornful comments online but many sensible people read the article and understood the campaign for what it really was. They weren't the type to comment on social media but contacted me and others and rallied. There were over 1000 of us locally in the end that worked together to respond to this local issue and we won. This exposure you are generating is fantastic! Targeting gormley's statues was inspired!

Also, I love your wit and humour. Go 'ed sisters! Yous are boss!

CholloDeNombre · 19/08/2018 16:36

We thank you! Things are crazy at LRS HQ at the moment.

boatyardblues · 19/08/2018 17:00

Are you getting media requests, Chollo?

HavingALittleBabyToolshed · 19/08/2018 17:04

I have plans to go to my local library tomorrow and report every dictionary and science text book I can lay my hands on.

FloralBunting · 19/08/2018 17:09

Honestly, you go out and do an honest few days work, and you come back, turn on the internet, and discover the phrase "Women don't have penises" has potentially become a hate crime.

Did someone mess with my settings again? This is like when I made the text go really, really small on the screen and couldn't fix it...

CholloDeNombre · 19/08/2018 17:20

Yes, boat

It's on our pinned twitter - a journo got in touch.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 19/08/2018 17:23

So we're all absolutely clear on this, the Liverpool mayor and potentially the police force think that penis shaped stickers constitute an attack on trans individuals of such severity that it must be investigated as a matter of urgency while Hetty on Twatter seems to think that children visiting the city of a Sunday and seeing such obscene things will traumatised by them for life.

However should these pink dangly things be attached to a bloke in lipstick they are fragrant and harmless even if he's a convicted rapist trying to get into a women's prison and while the sticker version could destabilise civilization as we know it, an nus officer whipping it out in the bus queue is just expressing their femininity. Also, those little darlings who will run screaming at the sight of feminist graffiti versions will be fine and dandy with encountering a real one in the swimming pool changing room or in the tent at guide camp.

Have I got this right?

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 17:27

So we're all absolutely clear on this, the Liverpool mayor and potentially the police force think that penis shaped stickers constitute an attack on trans individuals of such severity that it must be investigated as a matter of urgency while Hetty on Twatter seems to think that children visiting the city of a Sunday and seeing such obscene things will traumatised by them for life.

However should these pink dangly things be attached to a bloke in lipstick they are fragrant and harmless even if he's a convicted rapist trying to get into a women's prison and while the sticker version could destabilise civilization as we know it, an nus officer whipping it out in the bus queue is just expressing their femininity. Also, those little darlings who will run screaming at the sight of feminist graffiti versions will be fine and dandy with encountering a real one in the swimming pool changing room or in the tent at guide camp.

Have I got this right?

Mm-hm. Yup.

HavingALittleBabyToolshed · 19/08/2018 17:27

You’ve got it exactly right.

boatyardblues · 19/08/2018 17:30

Brava Chollo!

As someone else said, this is a case study in the Streisand effect.

CholloDeNombre · 19/08/2018 17:32

Indeed.

We are shocked by how quickly this has snowballed - we only went live on Wednesday.

Effluvian · 19/08/2018 17:32

Hate crime prosecution for stickering is an actual risk though I think.

The sticking of the sticker is the crime (vandalism, littering) and then all it takes is someone else to say they think the crime was motivitated by disliking a group (I think the term the CPS use is hostility and prejudice rather than hate) and off you go, you have a crime flagged for investigation as a hate crime.

Pressure to investigate leads the police to your social media, they find you here there and everywhere, spreading the word and maybe in one or two places you've let slip a less than objective dig at someone, so now they've got something they can call evidence to support the hate crime allegation.

CholloDeNombre · 19/08/2018 17:44

PN quoted our press release

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/08/19/liverpool-mayor-remove-anti-trans-women-penises-stickers/

R0wantrees · 19/08/2018 17:58

Pink News have stated that that the mayor has both 'pledged' and 'vowed' to remove the stickers as well as identifying those responsible.

Additionally both Owl and Fox have been quoted (again) calling for allies etc
(extracts)
"Owl, a non-binary trans activist and filmmaker, told PinkNews: “It is good to see that the mayor is taking a clear stance against the divisive and misguided action of a small but vocal hate group.

“People might not consider some stickers serious, but they are a part of a bigger context and a pattern of transphobia that has risen exponentially for the last year.

“Transphobic groups are taking action, and are constantly getting a platform in the media to spread misinformation and incite discrimination against a vulnerable group of people. We need our allies to stand up for us and condemn these constant attacks against the trans community.”

"Fox Fisher, a non-binary trans activist and filmmaker , said: “It’s more important than ever that our allies take action against such disgusting and reductive statements."

Liverpool Resisters:
“Our stickers are aimed at raising awareness of the potential threat to sex-based rights and women’s rights from the proposed changes,” the Liverpool ReSisters’s press release reads.

“Women and girls need spaces of their own for a variety of reasons, but principally because we continue to face male violence and harassment in public and in private spaces.”

It adds: “Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.”

TimeLady · 19/08/2018 17:59

If they prosecute me for fly-posting, they'll also have to prosecute the owner who has put up lots of A4 posters about her missing cat today too.

And the circus owners - they even know their names.

MsMcWoodle · 19/08/2018 17:59

I think that we need a lawyer's advice - if there are any lawyers out there...
From my own experience, I have decided that I will say nothing if caught and immediately demand a lawyer.
Once you say anything to the police they will just dig and dig until they get something to latch on to.
My understanding is that, unless you are arrested, you don't have to talk to them at all.
I would chip in for anyone who can't afford a lawyer. I'm sure lots of us would.
Don't be put off by scaremongering though. They have to know that this will go stratospheric if they try.

JillyArmeeen · 19/08/2018 18:22

Agree we need legal advice.
As I said on the the other thread, as absolute bollocks as this all is, look what happened to Posie.
I'm not that worried for myself, I've got a job but it's not a career.
Can't believe the police are actually taking this seriously. Strange times.
#iamstickerwoman

hackmum · 19/08/2018 18:35

I'd be curious to know what Antony Gormley thinks of it all. Does he think the statues he put on Crosby beach are all men? Or could those be female penises on the statues?