Is it a crime to say women don't have penises: James Kirkup article

[Wanderabout]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-it-a-crime-to-say-women-dont-have-penises/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I think as well the NB identity is a way for individuals like Lord and Murray who wouldn't actually want to go through the messy business of altering their body or indeed any aspect of appearance to still being feted as special and beyond criticism.

After all, if they were just normal blokes coming out with some jaw-dropping sexism, they'd be rightly pulled up. This way they get to indulge in some spectacularly unpleasant ideology and raging misogyny while being clapped on the back by the type of people who used to condemn it.

And then there's the more disturbing angle: all of this apparently immediately makes these individuals more suitable representatives for equality, children, the vulnerable etc because they are also a "minority" (no other white man with beard would have been equalities and children's convenor). The idea that this won't be abused is laughable.

Is the logical conclusion of non-binary ideology validation that people who identify this way are not restrained by segregated services, spaces etc if these are based on gender rather than sex and therefore can and should be able to access both?

Yes I have always thought this and this certainly applies in the case of "genderfluid". Look at Phil/Pips Bunce.

YY Alice.

The BBC interview was highlighted by @ mrkhtake2 (its from 2016)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1028589955621289984.html

"I'm not a boy or a girl. I'm both." A ten-year-old talks about being gender non-binary and explaining to family, friends and teachers that going on living as a girl "just felt wrong"

and can be listened to here:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v37fb

from thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296433-BBC-Bias-Collecting-Examples-here?pg=2

I'd be more interested in Fox and Owl if they'd had surgery and wore makeup to make them look like their animal counterparts. Now that would get them press coverage and help sell a few books.

Ho ho

I want these ones to take off

twitter.com/whoopsiiidaisy/status/1031393840362598400

Yes, non-binary people will be able to choose between whichever gender's services they feel will benefit them best at any given time. They would always have the choice.

So I'm guessing all non-binary people will choose to compete in women's sports.

All non-binary people will choose to go to a women's prison.

All non-binary people will choose a female ward in hospital.

Note that the TRAs are not pushing for non-binary spaces at all. They are not lobbying for non-binary sports, prisons, hospital wards, refuges. They just intend to take over the women's.

Male non-binary people will still of course join male-only golf clubs, still serve in religious roles reserved for men, still choose to inherit titles, still put themselves as father on birth certificates, still claim paternity leave. Until such time as the law is changed and male non-binary people can claim maternity leave.

And then when these men are ill or go to prison, they'll switch to using the female services.

I'll bet we'll see male non-binary police officers refusing to search male suspects, male non-binary prison officers refusing to do a strip-search of a male inmate. Because these things are icky and dangerous and if you can get away with claiming that you can't do it because of your gender identity, then a lot of people will.

I'd be more interested in Fox and Owl if they'd had surgery and wore makeup to make them look like their animal counterparts. Now that would get them press coverage and help sell a few books.

I entirely agree that would make them much more interesting.

Male non-binary people will still of course join male-only golf clubs, still serve in religious roles reserved for men

And the Freemasons, like Brother Edward Lord.

Both Fox and Owl have been very open about the cross sex hormones and surgery they have both had.

When did they move from asserting that they were man (trans men are men) and woman ( trans womene are women) to both being non-binary?

Dr Meg-John Barker (partner of Edward Lord) explains in the BACP best practice that they have authored,
(extract)
"Definitions
Non-binary is an umbrella term for people who do not experience
themselves as male or female (in the US the umbrella term genderqueer is more commonly used). As with ‘man’ and ‘woman’ this term is a big umbrella covering a wide range of different experiences, including people who:
• Do not have a gender (e.g. agender, gender neutral)
• Feel partially male or female (e.g. demi boy/girl)
• Are both masculine and feminine (e.g. bigender)
• Are located somewhere between male and female (e.g. androgynous)
• Have an additional – or third – gender,
• Move between genders (e.g. gender fluid)
• Reject the western binary gender system (e.g. genderfuck*)

• this term is the groups preferred identity descriptor

Technically all non-binary people are trans because virtually all babies are assumed to be male or female at birth, however, not all non-binary people identify as trans." (continues)
www.bacp.co.uk/media/2334/bacp-gender-sexual-relationship-diversity-gpacp001.pdf

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

I was reading recently about the prevelence of younger females who identify as 'gay' / 'demi-boys' it seemed to be especially associated with cosplay / anime online communities.

BraveAndStunning: That link made me laugh out loud. I loved this response: "The general public will #peaktrans more frequently than Jess Bradley gets his todger out."

I think its possible that a considerable percentage of those who currently identify as trans men / women will increasingly identify as non-binary.

We're back to the difference between sex and gender again, aren't we?

Sex cannot be 'non-binary'.

Don't mention anime! You'll summon the spectre of DeviantArt and then where will it end?!

This was the article I was reading & the embedded links:
4thwavenow.com/2017/01/09/anime-culture-teen-trans-trending/amp/

I was aware some trans men identity as 'gay' such as the LGBT+ NUS (open place) officer Rob Noon who has a close link with Jess Bradley & Action for Trans Health:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii

Does the push for non-binary work in GC fem favour? People think trans are oppressed etc and don't want to be anti-trans but v few people know about non-binary and even fewer think non-binary are oppressed. So they will be wtf is NB, rather than thinking people are being transphobic by not supporting it?

Does the push for non-binary work in GC fem favour?

It really should, but standards of logic and critical thinking have been sadly lacking so far in these matters.
Non-binary == not conforming to gender stereotypes == uh, most real people. Sorry, you're not special. Grow up and try to get rid of gender stereotypes instead of being defined by them.

I think seeing the likes of Edward Lord and Gregor Murray and realising that they reserve the right to access whichever spaces they choose is a wake up call.