Why should we be made to lie?

[spontaneousgiventime]

Before the guidelines we, biological women, were free to tell the truth about people who present as the opposite sex.

Now we can't. Even if we abide by the rules and not use the acronyms listed we can still get a strike, three strikes and we are out.

I will NOT refer to people who present as the opposite sex as trans wo/men. That steals my sex and I won't do it. I tried to use another name I thought was reasonable - nope, not acceptable and got a strike.

MN, why do you want your members to lie. I along with millions like me were brought up always to tell the truth, yet here on MN that's looked down on. Why?

The uterus is responsible for his entire life.

Idiots

Somebody should tell him it's transactivists reducing women to 'people with a cervix'

say it means that because is THE only word that accurately encapsulates the adult person with the female reproductive role, and without it you have NO word to describe the adult person with the female reproductive role.

Exactly. Rat seems a bit confused here. It's not about saying "it's in the dictionary so ner" as she seems to be doing herself.

Thecextreme Transactivists are trying to erase female biology as having anything to do with being a woman. Only because they don’t have female biology.

Yes it's so transparent. Womb envy.

That’s why ehen they do get a vagina they often shout about it from the rooftops.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indy100.com/article/juno-roche-trans-author-interview-queer-sex-representation-desire-transition-8339396%3famp

I feel like I am caught up in one of those evo psycho experiments they used to do on children in the seventies.

^ bewilderness I totally agree.
except it’s on a new wholesale level such that eg if I speak out about it at work I would be done for bullying and potentially be sacked. The experiment is covert and breaks all ethical norms. That’s not to mention the children to young to consent for themselves risking being drugged, sterilised and surgically mutilated in order to be ‘affirmed’ according to adults who believe in the tenets of this dogma.

I heard an NHS person mention ‘gender confirmation’ surgery the other day. On the one hand they were talking bloody nonsense, on the other hand they were accurately describing the visitation by surgery of gender literally on someone’s body.

Actually, that’s not fair - many transsexuals don’t fall into that camp and don’t support that idea.

We are forced to lie to placate men.

Same position Re: work but I've found that talking about it makes the fear bogeyman vanish. It's so much better to be out in the open. I've actually said how upsetting it is to be forced to call men, women. They look a bit as we are not supposed to be the upset ones, we are supposed to be the meanies.

Neuro Linguistic Programming I primarily always viewed as a bad thing. After all, it is about control of another, and pretty much against their will.

I feel like I am caught up in one of those evo psycho experiments they used to do on children in the seventies.
Me too. :(

So glad to hear you all feel the same as me - until quite recently, I was happy to use preferred pronouns and terminology to 'be polite' but now I just think 'fuck that shit I'm not lying'.

Why should we lie to make men feel better??

They're not being polite to us, so no more being polite back.

Why should we lie to make men feel better??

I know, it's awful to treat us so callously and then demand courtesy.

I concluded a while ago that a lot of the underpinning and attraction towards trans ideology is power. The ability to coerce counter intuitive language out of people and to get people to say lies that they also know is a lie. The manipulation techniques are quite stunning.

I've mentioned the dictionary definition of women. Not because I hold any particular faith in the truth of dictionaries, they just reflect usage. But in the case of the word "woman", the dictionary definition is the only (non-circular) one advanced so far by either side in this debate. What's more, a lot of processes and laws have been set up assuming that definition, so changing it would have wide reaching consequences. As would not having a simple and generally understood term for the entities formerly known as women should it get changed.

And anyway, our term, what gives you the right to obliterate it? Ask the women, all the women. Ask the men whether a transitioned woman is a man too.

Already seeing the awkwardness with this attempt at changing terminology around whether "women" or "people with cervixes" should be invited for smear tests. I don't think the database at my doctors' has a tick box for "person with cervix" but it does have one for male/female. Systems just aren't set up for the possibility that women are male. Stick to being men and add a new subclass of men - I personally am not even bothered if it's called transwomen as long as that isn't used as a push-off point for a bid for trans woman and then woman. I think the reason a lot of feminists are no longer happy to use transwomen, even if they may have been before, was because it clearly was and is being used in that way.

I have still not lied and I'm still hanging on here. I won't lie but I hate the way I have to traverse around the dictionary to be able to post without watering down my own views and values.

I've just heard that 'transwomen' is not allowed and it has to be 'trans women'. Is this true? I'm new to this forum and don't know where to look.

How about male-born transfolk - is that OK? I don't really get wtf this is all about apart from men trying to control women.

So what's new?

Staff as far as I know you don't need a space...not sure where that came from but I have read other women say it these past few days! As for your second paragraph...YY!!

I've just heard that 'transwomen' is not allowed and it has to be 'trans women'. Is this true? I'm new to this forum and don't know where to look.

No, I don't think this is true and I don't think MNHQ have ever said this. If it is, I am about to get deleted majorly. Going back to the dictionary, trans woman, transwoman or trans-woman mean exactly the same thing.

No they don't or TRA wouldn't get upset about the space

I am just talking about what the dictionary says. Just saw the bit about the space now. But surely MNHQ have not said that the term transwoman cannot be used?

Oh right. I see I'm not bothered if they do or not, I won't use it.

Here's an explanation about the space www.peaktrans.org/language-cis-trans-pronouns/#ftoc-heading-2
Apparently some people think it's really important. It wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to impose it here.

I was positive I saw one of the mods state that the one-word version was 'a bit goady' - but I was unable to find it on AS, nor find it again. I hit Peak Censorship at that point. But there was also a conflicting bit from Justine that said 'transwoman' was ok (on the part II thread I think it was).

It wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to impose it here.

Especially as this is all about power, and no concession will ever be enough.