Reconciling competing rights

[GaspingShark]

Let me start by saying I do know what it's like to have my experience disbelieved, invalidated and gaslighted on an large scale, though not as a trans person or a victim of sexual assault. I don't have PTSD but I do know what it's like to have triggerable sources of distress, again, not as a trans person or a victim of sexual assault.

For me, equal rights must include the right to define your own experience, without gatekeepers, and to be very hesitant to consider people delusional.

So I am unsure about this. I would be ashamed of trans friends seeing me saying stuff such as "I err on the side of including them as much as possible", because I don't think that kind of recognition is mine to confer.

OTOH, I don't know if therefore that means I'm not recognising sexual assault survivors distressed by the fear of male people in women-only contexts.

Is this reconcilable, or does it mean one side just has to grin and bear it? I'll read this thread carefully but due to my bad management of a health condition I can't promise to tend it beyond the OP atm.

I came here to listen quietly, not argue. I probably need answers to this topic more than you do, TBH. I only spoke up when i did b/c this debate had already died a painful and shameful death, and bollocks if you don't want to see it that way. FWRs have advanced 0% in 251 messages. [golf_clap] but at least you get me to mess with.

If you stop talking about me then this debate loses its sole remaining purpose. Should I start another thread, so at least the 'angry' can stay out of the way of anything more constructive?

Don't think people like me are all rattling your locks solely b/c of the usual reasons men come to women. Even in RL, I am sometimes as confused as any woman I interact with b/c I'm not bringing the 'usual expectations' even when presenting as male.

Is not having the last word the latest act of literal violence or something?

It would seem so, if that's all you can see.

MadBadDaddy

You do not appear to grasp that your editorializing and passing judgment on us, like every creepy d00d on the street, is rude and offensive. We do not view your attention as a compliment and we will not miss you if you stop.

I don't troll women, I troll bullshit. I need the women to talk to each other b/c it serves my perverse interests somehow.

5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

There are only a couple of people on this thread who failed to grasp the nature of the OP. In this post reconciling means persuading women to submit. This is obvious in every comment the OP makes. But not to you, MBD. Not to you.

I am the Spartacus of Last Words. Women get all the Last Words.

I claim the Last Word.

I claim the Last Word

Oh im not having that!

Again with the direct spotlighting! Why can't you just get out of my face long enough and I'll go away. I'm only moaning b/c you suck at debate and all that's left is to bully me.

The last word is mine. It's all about me.

Last. Word.

The arsewipe men are out in force this afternoon, are they not.

Do any of you open the PMs you get from creepy d00dz?

lang

Nope

I reckon you'll get bored of this before i....

Ohhh shiny thing

I was a care assistant 25 years ago, so 'arsewipe man' wasn't far off. Maybe i should have had a t-shirt made -my clients couldn't read, anyway, and if they could, they couldn't tell me. What a missed opportunity! If only we'd met sooner.

I expect there are a lot of people who hate swimming because they have bodies that are too heavy or are scarred etc.

There are trans only swimming clubs and I do understand that can help people (and I support that).

I don't understand why a group of people who would (presumably) understand trans only swim clubs (sessions at a pool) cannot understand women only spaces.

In terms of 'gendered' spaces at the pool I've been to five swimming pools in the UK in the last year. All five have shared unisex changing spaces with cubicles and then a seperare male or female room for communal changing. In none of these places was I, or anyone else, required to be naked in front of other people.

I dont think this is going to end well

And i dont mean lang and i

I'm having the last word because it pisses off the weirdos.

(Not Rufus, obvs.)

LAST WORD LAST WORD LAST WORD LAST WORD

Ah I have missed all of page 11 in my reply about swimming. Oh well. I am still happy to discuss the topic of the thread but won't get into the rest of it

I don't mind you or Rufus having the last word, Italian! Go on, take it!

(Psst. Last word.)

On the swimming thing, I know it was a bit of a pity party wasn't it. Let's guilt trip everyone. There are facilities that work.

@Picassospaintbrush I know, I don't quite get it. Is this Owl the Owl ego is non-binary and on TV as an openly non-binary trans women? If so what is all the 'passing' stuff about.

Of it is that Owl she dies look and sound very feminine (which is fine by me) but surely then if you do a lot of promotional stuff about being non-binary and trans then how do you expect people to read you?

Or does Owl not want people to read her? Because to me it just feels normal that we will identify people as make or female but that diesn't mean they need to dress or act or whatever a certain way at all.

who not ego!

@LangCleg

"I don't mind you or Rufus having the last word, Italian! Go on, take it!

(Psst. Last word.)"

I have this massive urge to say "Chick, I'm not talking yet!" But I am fighting it with every fibre of my being!