Brian Paddick asking for feminist views on Self Id

[DarthArts]

Fair play - he's asking for opinions.

He's being pointed to a woman's place and a lot of other GC women and Transpeople.

I think its really important to find ways to shift and challenge the narrative....
It is a key tactic of some TRAs to create the illusion of two sides. They have framed this as

1. those who believe people who are transgender have human rights which are being denied.
2. 'evil terfs', RadFems, 'so-called feminists' whose sole intention is to deny the human rights of people who are transgender and to cause them harm.

This is what many have unwittingly bought into but for good and decent reasons. It is this powerful polarity which must be broken down. There are increasingly active efforts by some TRAs to reinforce this 'war of two sides' in a sort of your either with us or against us way. Consider the call for allies / political demands / demonisation of those who have spoken up / silencing of women's voices/ abuse of twitter / media representation etc We need to increasingly be able to speak solely about women's/girls rights and concerns without allowing this being conflated as 'anti-trans'. The challenge is to expose some of those who are part of a powerful TRA lobby, their tactics and the wider reaching implications of the power this group has had. This is absolutely not about being 'anti-trans', perpetuating this myth is the key aim & corner stone of these particular TRAs strategy . I think the key is increasingly to 'play the ball, not the man'!

worth considering...

As pp have said, it is a positive step that a senior member of the LibDems has sought out (in his own words) "sensible feminists" to discuss the issues. The outcome of the meeting will be eagerly awaited. It seems that the message is now filtering through to politicians.

He showed his bias and disdain for “TERFS” in his first few tweets.

Karen Ingala-Smith has confirmed she's meeting with him - a number of TRAs very concerned but he's told the, to "trust me". Helen from mermaids & Shon Faye among them. He's not confirming names unless people want to confirm meeting with him, which Karen has done. Looks like they have history i.e. they've worked together in the past as well, and he's said he trusts her.

Will be interesting to see what comes from this.

Hopefully Karen Ingala-Smith will do a brilliant job of explaining concerns.

(YYY Delia, I love it)

Good news. Of course we have to engage with politicians - including those who have been dismissive. Remember - it's the TRAs who shout #nodebate and they have been exceptionally successful to date.
It is only down to some very courageous women who are facing an absolute onslaught of abuse from activists that we have started to make some shifts in the narrative.
We need to engage respectfully with politicians and others - if we don't these issues will remain on here and never get into the mainstream.

Freespeechforwomen...Well said!. I’m mostly a lurker who hasn’t a scooby and is trying to learn. I was shocked at the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act and the implications on Women’s Spaces. I’m still trying to get to grips with the abbreviations and terminology used on this part of MN. Thanks for making sense to me 👍. My user name has nothing to do with the Mermaids organisation. It was chosen because of my hair colour (a comment by my niece)...just saying in case anyone thinks otherwise!

I’m hoping this could be start of at least one political party taking a rational, gender critical view. I really want to have someone to vote for.

Memaidhead
I did wonder!
It is so difficult and I feel the rage at times at what is happening. It isn't fair that women are held to a different standard but at the moment, I believe that the issue is far more important than my feelings.
We are starting to make small inroads but the space has been left to the transactivists for so long to fill it with their toxic message, mainly because most feminists and women are inclusive and we just assumed that they were vulnerable and oppressed and why would we challenge such a marginalised group?
And then we started to see the silencing of women, their relentless focus on children and schools, misogyny dressed up as inclusion, women being instructed to be silent about our bodies etc etc. and the penny dropped.

freespeech...I feel very strongly about this, I have a close family member who is Trans and just wants to live a quiet life. He is a Trans Man, I haven’t had the courage to speak to him face to face about this..I love him to bits and just want him to live his life in peace and not to have a tough time. I won’t bother getting into the dynamics of gender or anything else. What really angers me is the refusal, by a small group of loudmouths (cause that’s what they are) to accept that other people (women, who make up 50% of the population) need safe spaces. It’s shocking that they disrupt free speech..in fact, it’s apparently speech crime (apologies to Mr Orwell) if you have a differing view! FFS! They even want to re write history (birth certificates) to confirm their ideology. That’s not sane...It’s Big brother meets the Handmaids Tale..it’s sickening. You are 100% right, we have to have logical conversations based on facts with politicians and people who have influence. We have to be calm and rational unlike the fuckwits who claim to represent the Trans Community...There..I’ve said my piece..I’m going back to Lurking again until I understand more 😂

ChattyLion...I wish,..oh how I wish..that Politicians would act for anyone/anything other than themselves.) I would tend to vote for the WEP (if they had a rep in the Highlands and Islands)but their non opinion on the whole Gender Confirmation debate leaves me wondering.

As a party member, only just, I very much doubt this will have a positive outcome (wish it were not so). The libdems endorse personal freedom above everything else, but I don't think it extends to women.

I’ve just been reading a couple of trans threads in some Lib Dem Facebook groups.

There’s no way in hell Paddick can change the direction of the LDs on this. The liberal dudebros are possibly worse than the brocialists for patting themselves on the back, calling themselves progressive and shouting down women as TERFs if they question it.

They all say that. Look at Jo Maugham. It always comes to nothing.

Brian has now apologised ' unconditionally' on Twitter for asking to hear people's views on this issue!

Apologising for asking to hear views from women?

I had a little hope that perhaps there could be some respectful and reasonable debate with a politician? What on earth must have happened to make him post that? The power these transactivists have knows no bounds does it?

I think its really important to give him a chance.
The pressure on him is coming from the small group of TRAs who have been so intent on polarising things. The use of propaganda, terfblocker / pink news reportings etc have also meant that this demonised view of GC women//groups has been unsurprisingly absorbed unwittingly by many people who are transgender.
Meeting with Karen can only be a good thing.
Its small steps.....

Apologising for wanting to hear views? A politician? In the House of Lords?

Is this real? What sort of planet have I landed on?

Is there a link?

I think its really important to give him a chance.

He had one. He fucked it. I'll guarantee you there will be NO meeting with Karen or A Woman's Place or, if there is, you'll NEVER hear a peep from him about what was said.

It doesn't matter how many women are afraid or hurt.
It doesn't matter how many women in refuges have their PTSD triggered.
It doesn't matter how many girls come home pregnant from residential trips.
It doesn't matter how many women are victims of voyeurs in their spaces.
It doesn't matter how many women do not consent.

It only matters that the penis might have got told it couldn't always have everything it wanted. We must show obeisance to any and all wounded feelings of any and all penis if anyone in public office has the temerity to ask for a woman's opinion.

Fuck. Right. Off.

(Not you fuck right off, Daff0dil - Brian and the associated cohort of penises.)

First time uploading photo on MN so hopefully will work!

No this is good. He's on the path to peak trans now. Being told you are a hurtful bigot and to "educate yourself" is a great way to encourage people to start to look into this more. Then there is no escaping logic.
Let's see what happens.
It is good the TRAs are starting to try this with men.

That Alisdair is a thick, misogynistic piece of shit. There seem to be a lot of them about.

It is infuriating but best to be kind to him for now if he is suffering a backlash from the TRAs.

I hope he will show some moral strength and go through with these meetings and not let debate be shut down.