Brian Paddick asking for feminist views on Self Id

[DarthArts]

Fair play - he's asking for opinions.

He's being pointed to a woman's place and a lot of other GC women and Transpeople.

I agree, kneedeep.

Instead of apologising for causing upset he should have asked ",why are you upset?"

Perhaps he's just pre-empting with an apology, as he thinks it might protect him from abuse?

I think that if he does try and change his mind and tries to keep the TRAs on board at the same time, he will suffer for it.

I don't think you can blend reality with fiction without them clashing at some point where they cannot meet. It is like 'oh what tangled webs we weave, when first we practice to decieve' - one fiction begets another to explain another as you attempt to square what is happening to the outside world.

I fear he has to go one way or the other.

If he asks why they are upset he will get a tirade of emotion, mixed with being erased and being the most oppressed group ever etc.

Although it would be interesting if they could put some reasons together to say why they are actually upset?

I fear he has to go one way or the other.

Third option: radio silence. I know I am being the resident Cassandra on this thread but I am so disillusioned that I hold out absolutely no hope that Brian Paddick will become an ally.

The absolute best that will happen is that he talks to Karen and A Woman's Place and is persuaded by their arguments (as anyone would be who actually listens instead of pretending to listen but with the usual cloth ears on) and then never says another word about trans issues again in public.

That's our best case scenario, I'm afraid.

He’s in the Lords, doesn’t have to worry about his career, and (if memory serves) has history of being fairly pragmatic... maybe all is not lost.

If nothing else, the hounding of him on twitter gives us another example to point at...

I'm going to have a bit of hope!

Just seen a bit of debate between him and someone called Alisdair Calder McGregor. It looks like his apology was to express concern but I hope the exchange has shown him what women are up against.

I am going to be hopeful again, someone has mentioned the cotton ceiling. Hopefully as a gay man he can begin to understand that.

Surely, as an ex copper he can understand women's concerns in this area?

Good article medium.com/@tom_farr/the-left-are-abandoning-women-and-in-doing-so-abandoning-everything-they-stand-for-51fd63457d8c

young person responding to him on Twitter (Jay) thinks that all humans start out with XX chromosomes

He is likely basing that on the Y chromosome having no effect in the first 4 to 5 weeks after conception which has led to an increase in the false presumption that we all start out as female.

Tom Farr is on here now, he's not difficult to spot.

"Bluntly, why the hell is no one in politics shouting from the rooftops about this stuff? We’re talking about people trying to put the frighteners on Mumsnetters, for goodness sake. In any other area of public life, politicians usually fall over themselves in their rush to speak up for middle-class working mothers. Yet the politicians who were desperate to talk biscuits at Mumsnet Towers are curiously silent about the intimidation that some women now report there.*

Because politicians at the highest levels have vested interests in vote winning, and that means appearing to be accepting of minority groups and deeply empathetic with them. They think that will win the approval of the voting majority. Right now, they believe the public are on the side of trans (despite there being no such 'side'). Most of the public, both men and women, believe this debate is about acceptance of trans, and politicians are playing politics based on that.
The media are not helping by publishing many stories that illustrate the troubles that trans face, whilst giving very little attention to the actual issue of women's rights. It's little wonder people don't grasp the real issue and thus hardly surprising politicians are following suit.
There are loads of fantastic women presenting the actual issue if you look for them, but they aren't being given enough prominence in the media.

As long as it's not an extremist group the first party to ditch self Id would probably have my vote, even Tory!

That article is great Italian! THANK YOU Tom if you are indeed around here

I'm no longer prepared to discuss substantive trans issues online. I am having face-to-face meetings offline. There are too many people, deliberately or otherwise, trying to get me to say something they can use against me or deliberately misinterpreting what I say. Still learning.

His current pinned tweet. Told you. There is NO WAY this man will ever admit in public that there may be any substance to the gender critical view, or that single sex spaces should be protected and defended.

Will. Never. Happen.

I still think he has asked to hear the other side of things from the narrative he has heard so far. Which is great. And getting off twitter is a way of having a proper conversation about it.

I think he should be given credit for being open minded, openly and in a difficult environment, and we can't assume what he's thinking.

I think he should be given credit for being open minded, openly and in a difficult environment, and we can't assume what he's thinking.

I think it's entirely possible that he will have his previously pro-transactivism opinion changed. The point is, I am certain that, even if he does, he'll never say so on Twitter or anywhere else someone might hear him.

Why LangCleg?

Lang is right

Why?

I think the most we could ever hope for is that he ceases actively to campaign for self ID. But he won't help. He will wash his hands of it.

Maybe Karen IS Will tweet the results of her meeting, if it's positive. That might flush him out.

They'll sit on their hands until a generation of sterilised, mutilated children is demanding to know why this was allowed to happen and then they'll tell us they always stood against it.

I'm not sure we are helping by posting things like this. I think anyone who has openly said they will listen should be given space to do that and form their own point of view, and act in whatever way they decide based on that. I think suggesting we flush people out is not likely to help fan the small flames of listening and debate that could be started.

I think you're right Wine - though I'm bracing myself to be disappointed if I'm honest.