I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

I don't want to derail this excellent thread though

I think that's a separate issue from the self-ID one, and perhaps something to be cautious about saying bluntly on threads about it. People reading quickly will assume you're talking about transpeople or AGP people, I did for a moment!

No I am most certainly not talking about trans people!

OP if they do not back away from the self ID then you must of course insist that the Men’s toilets all have sanitary bins, that if there is a machine for sanitary products in the ladies that the mens gets one and anyone in the men’s who complains about this, or you washing out a moon cup at the sinks or getting menstrual blood on surfaces must be re educated. Because of course not to would be transphobic and exclusionary.

This is such a brilliant and simple idea

Theclacks is spot on there. Men will not like that.

littlevoiceofsanity I wonder if you should get that earlier post deleted, as it’s the type of thing Willy and his gang will cope, just so they can scream ‘they all want to kill us!” Naturally they will ignore your clarifications.

Cope = copy

Cool, lots of people of both sexes need to do this in order to prove the point that self-id is utterly preposterous.

In Denmark, where they already have version of self-ID (it's quite easy to legally change your gender there) at least one semi-famous public figure has taken it upon himself to demonstrate the absurdity of it all, all with a straight face. It caused quite a fuss.

Anyone with half a brain could see that this type of outcome is only logical if anyone who says they're whatever gender they say they are can relatively easily have their gender legally changed and recognized. This is one reason of many why self-id is so dangerous.

Fantastic idea. In fact more men are against the idea of women in their spaces than the other way round. Prolly cos women have been brought up to feel sorry for men and they've all swallowed the poor trans women line.

So I like the idea of putting men out and seeing how they like it. Perhaps if Oscar Pistorius identified as able bodied and ran in the Olympics then they'd get a taste of the self ID medicine in sports too.

My only concern re the changing room challenge is that it might backfire and usher in communal mixed changing rooms.

Interesting Dichord. I have a male friend who might be up for proving the point in a similar way.

It was so telling that in two pools in Denmark he wasn't allowed into the ladies' changing room but offered a third option. Despite his legal gender change,

Even though we're constantly told on this forum that we should be less prudish and more like Scandinavians.

Very happy to join in a man only swim in a London. My manly breasts could tuck into trunks, so no worry about public indecency there.

OP you’re doing a wonderful thing.

If people have a female MP they should write and ask them to do this.

Alas, my MP is an adherent to a deeply conservative religion. Is it likely she would even respond?

I'm also an adherent to a deeply conservative religion :)

More power to you OP!

I may be up for airing my man boobs in public for a good cause so if you get the go ahead let me know.

I'm also considering the priesthood.

That video clip totally illustrates the issue with self IDing. I thought Denmark had accepted ID with no problems - they seem somewhat alarmed at this

So has anyone transitioned and become a jockey yet? I'm sure the typically more slight frame of a transman would be quite an advantage.

But you can be a jockey as a woman And ride in the same races as men. They’re not segregated by the jockeys biological sex. Only by the horses’ form/age.

And yes women do often have a weight advantage. I used to be a jockey and would be sinking pints and eating pies trying to get my weight up before a race while male jockeys would be on salad and sat in the sauna. But then men have a strength advantage which can help a bit in a race.

I’m about 3st too heavy but happy to hold your coats, lads.

Happy to be part of any protest.

Well I've learnt something there then MrsJohnDun, I always assumed it was just men.

I rarely post, but have to say 'well done' to OP. I wish I were as brave as you.

Would it be worthwhile to put together a 'script' of some sort so that anyone who joins in hits the same points every time? This would make a unique mantra being repeated. Sorry if this has already been discussed, I've missed out a chunk in the middle...