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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am about to ID as a man

1000 replies

YesItsADebate · 23/02/2018 08:27

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous Blush

Wish me luck!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MickHucknallspinkpancakes · 24/02/2018 09:07

Couple of things were very interesting in that article...

I was fortunate that I’m quite senior, I’m a director and head of global markets core engineering integration components. I’m very established. Having a network of friends and allies that are watching your back makes a big difference.

Yep well done mate, you used your Male privilege to climb up the ladder before you got brave enough to get your make up bag out.

And yes I was thinking the same - what are the Male/female pay scales like at Credit Suisse?

No mention of use of facilities though.

ShotsFired · 24/02/2018 09:12

Whatever protests happen, we will need small - postcard sized? - things to hand out/leave behind that explain why it is happening. I know we have the full page things from FPFW, but that will not get read by this target audience.

You can use a vanity url for more info (...com/whyarethewomenhere etc), but something A5 or A6 sized at most, with bullet point "consequences" of the GRA/self id, ideally for the women in their life, not just these (perceived) random nutters in their gym changing room.

worita · 24/02/2018 09:13

Female pay scales are now equal, thanks. One of our most senior representatives is a woman. Pippa, could you come over here for a tick and confirm that we have no pay gap for women anymore? Thanks.

Ereshkigal · 24/02/2018 09:16

Pippa is an archetypal sickeningly privileged man LARPing as a woman in a way which he finds exciting when it's convenient to do so. He's a cross dresser. Nothing more. What a joke. How stunning and brave.

MickHucknallspinkpancakes · 24/02/2018 09:47

@worita 😂😂😂😭😭😭😬

Mxyzptlk · 24/02/2018 09:57

we will need small - postcard sized? - things to hand out/leave behind that explain why it is happening.

Was thinking this.
So that people don't just go away confused, still with no clue.

lullaluulabelle · 24/02/2018 10:14

*But we aren't safer with them

Women's is for women

Not for any man who think a he might be in danger in the men's*

This

Pootlebug · 24/02/2018 10:22

Interested to hear the reply. Good on you OP. And if you're near London and want some extra numbers I'm happy to self ID as a man and come along for a swimming session

TheGoodEnoughWife · 24/02/2018 10:24

And in the cold light of day that is what is bizarre. If certain men don't feel safe using male facilities then this should be addressed so as to make them feel safe, it shouldn't mean they get to come to our places and make us feel unsafe.
And, of course, us feeling unsafe means we need to be 'educated' out of that.

Really Why Is This Even Our Problem?!
It's a man thing.

lullaluulabelle · 24/02/2018 10:58

When the weather's warmer, I'd be very happy to organise a MN swim-in at the men's pond in Hampstead (where I understand the rules permit TIMs to use the women's pond?) and a topless seaside walk. I've looked at the law in my amateur way and exposure of breasts doesn't count as what used to be the crime of indecent exposure (now just 'exposure'), but may constitute a public nuisance if the intent is to shock people. Just putting that out there so that fellow MNer are aware that there is a risk of being arrested if they go topless in public.
I am no exhibitionist and I work in a job that doesn't tolerate staff being arrested, but ill join you in this
Because it is important

SoupDragon · 24/02/2018 10:58

What we really need is female MPs to start self-IDing as men, and begin using Westminster's facilities for men.

If people have a female MP they should write and ask them to do this.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 24/02/2018 11:10

Really Why Is This Even Our Problem?! It's a man thing.

Yes, and they're making it a woman's problem rather than doing the obvious logical thing which is a third space. Which makes it seem very likely that actually this isn't really about being threatened in the mens but about riding roughshod over womens' consent and enjoying making them feel uncomfortable / scared.

The TRA line is that the feelings of transwomen are more important than the feelings of any woman who suffers from PTSD / has been raped or simply feels uncomfortable with a penis in the woman's changing room in front of themselves or their daughters.

It is deeply creepy. I think self ID is a predators' charter.

This thread has made me think a lot about this. I know that there are many transsexuals, like Miranda Yardley who - like most women (and indeed men) - consider the feelings of others and who, for that reason, like Miranda, don't use women-only spaces. However, the debate is being driven by those who clearly hate women and hate women having boundaries or talking about their biology or doing anything that they haven't given permission for. It's all about control.

Given this is the case, I think I'd actually feel happier if self ID comes in in the normal men's changing room. Where the men who care about other peoples' feelings and are just there for a swim are. We always hear NAMALT. It's true, most men are decent. Given who's driving the whole self-ID thing, I think I'd rather take my chances in with the men. The ones who don't want to make women uncomfortable and would likely step in to stop someone who is - say - using their physical size to intimidate women and children. I can't believe it's come to this, but honestly, that's how I'd feel.

At which point, we will just have one unisex changing room after all. And maybe that's the point. I don't know.

Snakie · 24/02/2018 11:15

Count me in for the swim in

TheCunkOfPhilomena · 24/02/2018 11:19

OP, I salute you sir!

We need to be doing more of this to highlight the ridiculous nature of Self-ID. I fancy joining the Masons, anyone else?

PhilODox · 24/02/2018 11:31

If people have a female MP they should write and ask them to do this.

Alas, my MP is an adherent to a deeply conservative religion. Is it likely she would even respond?

TheGoodEnoughWife · 24/02/2018 11:42

Given this is the case, I think I'd actually feel happier if self ID comes in in the normal men's changing room.

I agree. I would like to use the mens facilities as I feel it would give me back some control. I would be choosing to be with males that don't want to invade women's spaces as opposed to be forced to share space with men who have pushed for their 'rights'. Men in women's spaces will be getting off at our uncomfortableness.

Mxyzptlk · 24/02/2018 11:49

When the weather's warmer, I'd be very happy to organise a MN swim-in at the men's pond in Hampstead

The sooner the better. Don't wait around for a nice day.

In the meantime, get your responses in to the Scottish Government's consultation on reforming the GRA.
You don't have to live in Scotland to respond to it. Changes in Scotland would make changes in the rest of the UK more likely.
1 March is the closing date.

consult.gov.scot/family-law/review-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004/

littlevoiceofsanity · 24/02/2018 11:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SmurfOrTerf · 24/02/2018 12:05

Phil if your MP is deeply religious then she probably already understands the sheer lunacy of self ID. Whereas my female Labour MP might be too concerned about being de-selected. Sad

SoupDragon · 24/02/2018 12:05

Alas, my MP is an adherent to a deeply conservative religion. Is it likely she would even respond?

I guess that depends how that deeply conservative religion views changes of gender and single sex spaces.

Patodp · 24/02/2018 12:08

Weirdly the deeply religious conservatives seem to be our main allies in this madness, where we would oppose almost all of their other views wrt women's rights.

Tanith · 24/02/2018 12:17

“I know there are decent men who cannot understand why this is even being considered let alone being pushed as law. ”

If I were them, I would be deeply insulted by the inference that I could not cope with the sight of a transperson without attacking or murdering them in a transphobic rage.

PhilODox · 24/02/2018 12:18

Maybe she's definitely one to ask then!

Little voice what on earth do you mean by you want "chemical castration and the death sentence"? Shock what are you referring to?

littlevoiceofsanity · 24/02/2018 12:23

To be absolutely clear, I want chemical castration for anyone who harms a child below the age of 10 for their own gratification. Obviously with no room for doubt over their guilt.
The death sentence for anyone who not only does this to a child but actively spreads their deeds on porn sites dedicated to the activity of using children for sexual purposes.

I think we've been too nice for too long.

littlevoiceofsanity · 24/02/2018 12:26

I think if the deterrent was severe enough it just might be enough to prevent some of the abuse which seems rife.

I've never thought of myself as Right Wing but recent events have bewildered and shocked me beyond belief.

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