I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

If they refuse your request, then be thoroughly disingenuous & tweet one of the numerous TRAs to let them know.

They will wholeheartedly jump on board in your defence, in a nasty, rabid attack - until they realise that you're in no way attempting to 'pass'...

...at which point they will be forced to perform cognitive & verbal gymnastics to 'support' you whilst clearly hating that you're calling out the fact that the Emperor is naked.

(Much like that odious Theryn Meyer when confronted with Danielle Muscato.

You are very brave OP.

What I’m afraid of though of is that instead of coming to the conclusion that Swim England’s policy is bat shit crazy, and they need to bin it, they’ll embrace it.

What the heck happens then?

Well done, OP.

I'm wondering if more of this "direct action" might have some effect in demonstrating how ridiculous things are getting?

Did you get the sense that they were aware of the guidelines before you initially contacted them, OP, or were they blindsided? Just because guidelines have gone out I'm not convinced that means that they've actually been read.

Well done OP!

You've boxed them in quite nicely. Either they explain how they intend to educate the men not to discriminate against you, or they have single sex facilities as provided for under the Equality Act.

Will be interesting to see which way they jump.

And extra kudos for being prepared to go topless swimming at a men's session.

just a thought but I wouldn't necessarily let it get out where you are going, as you'll get a bunch of blokes turning up to leer.

Elendon I kept my own name. I wasn't asked for a title but if I am, it will be Ms. I am very deliberately not making any changes about myself at all as under self-ID policies, no changes would be required.

Eg trans-only swimming sessions so people can feel more comfortable.

This is from a post upthread. Given the alleged numbers involved, iding as trans during a trans only session would likely get you a pretty empty pool.

That was amazing. 💪💋

"To be honest, it was really difficult for me to act against character and I really had to be strict with myself to ensure that I made my preferences in accessing men's spaces crystal clear. I'm sad that those really nice people I met are now going to think of me as utterly selfish. Do pro-self ID TRAs really think they're so in the right that they don't notice other people's upset and discomfort, or do they just not care?"

This is really interesting. I often wonder about this.

YesItsADebate You are my new hero! Well done!

good work Yes xxx

pro-self ID TRAs really think they're so in the right that they don't notice other people's upset and discomfort, or do they just not care?

They absolutely do care. Look up AGP and you’ll see how much they enjoy your discomfort.

"wasn't asked for a title"

Sneaky little man-benefit there, no need to question about marital status/whether you wish to use another non-marital title.
Form filler ticks the mr box, easy peasy

Hats off OP, you're brave.

It's clear that the impact of transgender policies on women is being shoved under the carpet, and until there is an impact on the wider male population changes will only be detrimental to women.

On the plus side, I can't believe cardi-based sex has escaped my notice up until now. Would slippers be a step too far do you think?

I'm in fits of laughter reading your updates, OP. Do you think they realised you were making a point?

Well done op. Keep up posted on the response. Love your outfit choice too - did it accentuate your man curves?

I have so many thoughts about self ID'ing and marching down to a Masonic lodge to get them to swear me and my geezer flaps into the club.

Apart from the TRA brigade I think there's a lot of apathy from the Male majority because it simply doesn't affect them in their minds.

Like when a male colleague of mine said it's ok to watch someone else's daughter in a strip club (she's there because she enjoys it and gets paid well), but my suggestion that based on that it'd be a great career choice for his daughter or mum was of course positively abhorrent.

Sometimes you have to hold up the mirror.,

Great updates and thank you for this. I have training in acting so I will do it. I like the way you decided to dress, I may emulate that as well, but I won't be able to manspread if I put on a dress. Can't wait! I may wear skin tight jeans, knee high boots and a leather jacket. Plus I will put on some makeup and make sure my hair is looking gorgeous!

Thank you for doing this, you are an inspiration!

geezer flaps 🤣

YesItsADebate

You are an absolute warrior and I have just fallen in love with you. Have all the emojis going.

Ace.

but I won't be able to manspread if I put on a dress

Skater dress?

Any Labour members on here? It has occured to me that a perhaps a woman who identifies as a man might be allowed to speak about these CLP motions about trans inclusiveness...

OP - you are so brave!! Wow!

And if anyone is interested, I just asked my DH if he was in a situation of using a communal men's changing room and somebody used it who identified as male but was in every biological way female, would that bother him? Yes, he said, it definitely would bother him, he would not be happy about it at all. And he doesn't believe a person who identifies as female but is in every way biologically male should be allowed to use female communal changing areas either.

This has made my day it really has!

What I’m afraid of though of is that instead of coming to the conclusion that Swim England’s policy is bat shit crazy, and they need to bin it, they’ll embrace it.

What the heck happens then?

Then I, and as many self-ID men who want to join me, will be attending the men's only swimming sessions, swimming topless, showering naked in the men's showers, using the urinals (messily and changing in the men's open changing rooms. For those who don't fancy swimming, I'm also up for badminton although I'm a bit crap.

Did you get the sense that they were aware of the guidelines before you initially contacted them, OP, or were they blindsided? Just because guidelines have gone out I'm not convinced that means that they've actually been read.

The staff I contacted intially had no idea but the managers I met today had the guidelines printed out, with notes and highlights.

just a thought but I wouldn't necessarily let it get out where you are going, as you'll get a bunch of blokes turning up to leer.

The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I'm not an exhibitionist and am actually an active member of a very conservative religion. I don't want to be leered at and will be extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable but it would certainly demonstrate how unsafe and unworkable the policy is in real life. If they implement self-ID policies, I'm happy to make it public to speed up the implosion.

My worry is that if it gets out of hand, with perverts descending en masse, customer reaction, staff being overwhelmed and possible police involvement, the chain will cancel single-sex swimming sessions. What I hope though is that they will see that this could be the end result during the policy review and will apply the EA exemption as the only workable solution. Even if they stop the men/women-only swimming sessions, they're still going to face the issue of showers, loos and changing rooms.

If it does descend into a masive farce, then great. It will be more widely picked up in that case and illustrate the barminess of the whole self-ID movement.