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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

767 replies

dorade · 09/03/2017 10:13

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

  1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.
  1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.
  1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

OP posts:
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7Days · 14/04/2017 09:34

I know you didnt read the full thread but did you at least read the opening post? How would you respond to the issues raised in it?

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 14/04/2017 09:42

Transactivists hate unapologetic lesbians. They accuse us of transphobia and "vagina fetishism".

DJBaggySmalls · 14/04/2017 09:44

herewegoagain4749 Here we go again - you are not listening.
Self identification lets male predators who are not trans into women only spaces.
It puts us at risk. Fight for a third space and we'll support you.

If you think that means we think MTT are predators its because you're not listening.
If you think men wont go to those lengths you are not well informed.
If you think its ok to trans prepubescent children you are wrong.
If you think its ok for trans people to silence women or lesbians, or to allow them to compete as women in sports, you are a misogynist.

We dont gate crash child bereavement, post mastectomy or post hysterectomy support groups and shut them down just because they arent inclusive of us. but thats exactly what trans people are doing.

Fund raise to pay for the services MTT's now want to use. Dont leave it all to us.

CharlieSierra · 14/04/2017 09:57

Yet again a bunch of vehement uninformed people

How dare you. How dare you presume that you know anything at all about what being a woman is? How dare you appropriate someone else's humanity? You are the one who is uninformed. Sexual orientation is nothing to do with what you are about. Go away.

Datun · 14/04/2017 10:06

herewegoagain4749

No one thinks transpeople shouldn't be themselves. If fact I would actively promote it.

Datun · 14/04/2017 10:40

Today 09:25 ladyballs

I'm an actual infertile woman. I'd happily slap every MTT or ally who coopts MY lived experience for their bullshit agenda.

That's really interesting. I feel the same way about things like menopause. When they bang on about menopausal women not having periods to authenticate their own lack of menstruation.

I wish women could have an affirmed understanding that we can deflect these tactics in the surefire knowledge that we are not offending the women the transactivists say we are.

CharlieSierra · 14/04/2017 10:48

I wish women could have an affirmed understanding that we can deflect these tactics in the surefire knowledge that we are not offending the women the transactivists say we are

I'm actually not bothered about offending handmaidens, as far as I'm concerned they're part of the problem. I don't see why women wouldn't be offended by having their lived experience appropriated.

Datun · 14/04/2017 10:54

You're probably right Charlie. I may be looking into it too deeply.

It's one of the things that is so time-consuming. The endless refutation of straw man arguments and finding yourself on a tangent a million miles away from the issue.

That's why I regularly come back to the 'just fuck off' school of argument.

dementedcommuter · 14/04/2017 11:01

I haven't seen one feminist say being trans is illegitimate. Only there are trans women and women that's all. Trans women are not biological women fact, not hate crime!

Accept it and let's all move on together, biological womens rights intact, then we can fight together for yours. Trans women present the same risk of violence and sex crime to women as men, as they are XXs also fact.

There are infertile women, those who choose not to have childte and those who have had menopause yes, saying they are the same sex as men appropriating a version of womenhood is as ludicrous as saying a blind person doesn't have eyes.

DNA don't lie and we were all birthed by an XY. Live and let live, lets accept and celebrate our differences and move forward together.

cuirderussie · 14/04/2017 11:08

Sorry to derail, just reading a couple of pages back -does anyone know why Soros is so pro-trans? Is it something close to him personally or is he just unthinkingly seeing it as a progressive cause akin to gay rights the way a lot of people do?

BeyondUser24601 · 14/04/2017 17:52

Been meaning to read this thread for ages, but it was so long that I didn't have chance til today!
Marking my place

AssassinatedBeauty · 14/04/2017 18:18

dementedcommuter I think you've got your XX and XYs the wrong way round. XX-female, XY-male.

Nellooo · 18/04/2017 16:34

Sorry to @Datun and others who responded to my last post. I've been off this thread for a few days. My peak trans kept being peaked over and over and I needed some sunshine.

I'm right with you on the "just fuck off" argument. Especially after reading the Dove "I'm a Mom because I say I'm a Mom" thread 🙄

BMacklin · 18/04/2017 18:29

I don't blame you Nellooo. It's truly upsetting stuff. Just when I think it must implode on itself in a meta self contradictory circle it cranks up again. Dove being case in point.

AnotherQuoll · 18/04/2017 18:45

I don't really care if being trans is a choice or not, and I can't see that transactivists would reject anyone who may choose to be trans. It makes little difference to me personally. I support everyone to wear what they want, to play whichever sport they want, to be as pink and frilly or as flanno and dockers as they like. But males aren't females, and males don't belong in female-only spaces.

Datun · 18/04/2017 19:24

But males aren't females, and males don't belong in female-only spaces.

Well, exactly. The whole argument comes down to this.

Leave women alone.

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