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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

not a nice topic, but been annoying me all day

178 replies

ButWhyIsTheGinGone · 24/09/2011 17:39

Hello All,

I've been dithering whether to post this as it's not really an "issue," and it's not the nicest of subjects, but I've been thinking about it all day.
After reading and watching the fantastic "Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" film, I was talking with a male friend in the pub about the horiffic scene where Lisbeth Salander (possibly my favourite fictional character ever) was attacked and anally raped by her guardian.

This led to a discussion bout how appalling an act that is, at which my friend claimed it would be far "worse for a man." I couldn't quite believe this and he said he couldn't explain it and I "really wouldn't understand." At this point a second man (drunk and not intelligent) pointed out that "women do it all the time." I didn't even acknowledge this fairly disgusting comment and the conversation changed.

But it's been bugging me all day. My friend is a sensible and intelligent man and would never say anything to deliberatly hurt or offend, but this view has shocked me and got me thinking. If a woman who has previously had consensual anal intercourse is attacked in this way....is it less "horiffic" than if a man is similarly attacked who has not?

Would be interested to hear any opinions - I'm no feminist expert but am lurkng around this board a lot more and finding a lot of the discussion really interesting.

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Jaquelinehyde · 24/09/2011 17:44

Surely rape is rape regardless of sexual experience/orientation.

Just because you have consented to any form of sexual behaviour does not then make it more acceptable/less traumatic to force that sexual act on to that person.

I think your friend is being an utter fool.

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Dolallytats · 24/09/2011 17:46

Hi
Although it is not better or worse for either sex (and what a weird thing for your friend to think!!), I think maybe he has that view because male rape is not really spoken about and maybe this is why it is seen as worse??

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AlysWorld · 24/09/2011 17:47

Sorry to hear that OP.

I imagine there's two things going on. They are suggesting that because anal sex for men is associated with homosexuality, it would be worse for them if they are heterosexual. And mixing up rape with sex. People frequently do do so, and describe rape in terms of being sex but just a bit more forceful. When in reality it is an act of violence. Sadly there are a lot of rape myths out there, and people do spout them unthinkingly or thinkingly. Here's a blog post that talks about the mixing up sex and rape thing.

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ButWhyIsTheGinGone · 24/09/2011 17:50

I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding male rape being not spoken about, and plus the added (illogical) association with homosexuality. I think that's what's been making me think all day. Jaqueline, he's honestly not "a tool" but I do think a bit less of him for thinking this way.

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ButWhyIsTheGinGone · 24/09/2011 17:51

Thank you for the blog link, BTW.

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LeBOF · 24/09/2011 17:55

I wonder if he means that men aren't accustomed to the idea of being vulnerable to having their bodily integrity violated in such a humiliating way? That perhaps it emasculates them in a way, which adds shame to the assault? Quite how he assumes that any kind of rape is "less bad" for women, I'm not sure...because we are used to it, I suppose Hmm

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Malificence · 24/09/2011 18:27

I can (sort of) see his point, I think it would also be "worse" for a lesbian to be a raped by a man , it's probably wrong but I would feel it was worse for me too as I've only ever had sex with one man for my whole life.
I know that all rape is wrong and rape is rape is rape but there do seem to be varying degrees of awfulness.

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ThePosieParker · 24/09/2011 18:51

I wonder whetehr the assumption is borne out of the fact that men are not submissive therefore to be rid of ones masculinity by force is worse.....

Of course it's not.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 24/09/2011 18:55

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MoChan · 24/09/2011 18:57

I think it's the 'homosexual' thing that others have said, that make men think it's somehow worse for a man to be raped in that way. But I suspect they also think it's worse for a man to be humiliated than for a woman, which is of course, balls. Plus, there seems to be more of an acceptance/expectation that women will do anal sex at the drop of a hat these days. Either way, if a friend had said that to me, I would be absolutely livid.

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UsingPredominantlyTeaspoons · 24/09/2011 19:03

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Malificence · 24/09/2011 19:52

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StewieGriffinsMom · 24/09/2011 19:57

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chibi · 24/09/2011 20:01

Do people ever think about others who might be reading? what might it be like to be a woman who has had more than one sexual partner, and been raped, to read that? crass, and cruel.

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Malificence · 24/09/2011 20:04

Of course you are right, nobody, young or old, male or female should ever have to experince rape.

I might well be wrong and unkind, but it is how I feel Sad.

Can you honestly say that a violent rape by a stranger (or gang rape) isn't more severe than a drunken date rape or a partner rape?
I've seen a few women on here who have been raped say that their rape was not as "bad" as other womens' experiences of rape too.

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UsingPredominantlyTeaspoons · 24/09/2011 20:05

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UsingPredominantlyTeaspoons · 24/09/2011 20:08

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chibi · 24/09/2011 20:08

Well

i was thrown to the ground and sexually assaulted, but not raped.

i had had two sexual partners at that point.

although i probably should have been able to laff it off as just one of those things, it derailled my entire life until my twenties, and i screwed up school, eventually dropping out. i am lucky in that i got my life back on track eventually

what a drama queen, eh?

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KRITIQ · 24/09/2011 20:09

I don't think it is ever helpful to generalise about what type of people might be more or less harmed by rape. As others have said, no one deserves to be raped, ever. There is no such thing as a not-really-as-harmful-as-it-could-be rape. The experience is individual to each person. There is no "textbook response," no good or bad way to deal with it, no rules about how or will it will hit you.

It is very divisive to even speculate about who is likely to be more harmed by rape. It just plays into that old rape myth that some people are more deserving of our sympathy than others, some are genuine rape victims and others are liars/misunderstood the situation/cockteasers/used to it/etc.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 24/09/2011 20:09

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chibi · 24/09/2011 20:10

Leaving this now, i am getting too angry to discuss this sensibly.

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Malificence · 24/09/2011 20:14

I'm sorry for derailing this thread and for upsetting people, that wasn't my intention.

I don't agree that all rape is the same though.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 24/09/2011 20:18

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Malificence · 24/09/2011 20:19

I have self reported my post of 19.52, I truly didn't wish to hurt anyone.

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aliceliddell · 24/09/2011 20:21

I'm aware that each of us has got a special status of some aspect of our sexuality that we feel is very vulnerable to violation, be it trust of a partner, virginity, lesbianism, or whatever. I don't think anyone can make that decision for anyone else, that's why it's an advance that rape is no longer just PIV, because that's worse for some people but not others.

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