How easy is it to obtain Mounjaro online if slim?

[TheCalmPinkKoala]

I know this might be controversial but I’m interested to hear people’s options. I have a lot of friends who have managed to get monjaro online despite being slim. They just lie about their weight and height and if asked for photos they stick their tummy out to make them look bigger. I’m intrigued as to how they are going to manage monjaro - one says she is started on 2.5 dosage and then went up to 5mg and is going to stay on that until she loses a stone and then will wean herself off it. She is quite healthy and eats well and exercises but put on a stone and wants to lose it quickly in time for summer. Is this actually realistic? I’m not looking for people to comment saying how unethical it is - I just want to understand it more so I can understand her. Is it really that easy to get monjaro just by doctoring photos and lying about your weight? And is it really ok to take it for a while and then come off it (pressming you change any eating habits so you don’t put the weight back on? I pressume she will have to continue lying to the online pharmacy (she used voy) about her bmi as I’m sure they stop prescribing if your bmi is 22?

So, aside from all the discussion about whether ‘thin’ people should be allowed to use WLIs, if you do want use them to lose that stubborn 5kg which is there because of snacking that is caused by food noise which you’d like to cut out, perhaps by using WLIs long term, and you’ve got hold of a pen, what are the practicalities?
Do you start on 2.5mg and reduce the dose till you’ve got the minimum that cuts out the noise? Or, do you start on a smaller dose (how small?) and work up?
How long do you stay on each dose?
Can you safely use the pen beyond 30 days?
Can you just order a new pen when you need one or do the providers start getting difficult if you’re not on a subscription?

I get you climbed down, which is fair play, but to be fair to @Proteinpudding it does indeed read like you were saying that, that you took issue with slim people using the drugs, and as such pretended they were high risk to frighten people off.

@Safarisagoody I really don't intend to frighten anyone about anything. As I said before, people can and will do what they want. I respond to posts who can't see any reason why these medications shouldn't be available to anyone who wants them. There are valid reasons for that, and discussing them isn't an attack on anyone or an attempt to scare people.

@SilenceInside I won't keep going on about it, appreciate you've climbed down eventually but it did seem like you were continuing to insist in different ways that they're 'high risk'. Any black market drug is high risk, there's nothing unusual about WLI there. It isn't the first time I've seen you posting against people using them for being deemed 'high risk' on the forum which is why I continued. People should be able to make informed decisions and it's important that they have the actual facts to be in a position to do that.

I also won’t keep arguing it, as I get it’s horrible when that happens, but you did say taking these high risk meds was a risk to health and not just risk of misuse.

I don’t agree that a high risk prescription only medication will ever be widely approved for cosmetic weight loss at a healthy weight without there being any other medical issues. Some prescribers may decide they can justify off licence prescribing to people at a healthy weight but I doubt that this could be justified on a widespread basis. There are specific risks to taking this medication, which when weighed against the fact that there is no health benefit at all, then no one should be prescribing it to people who are in the healthy weight range. It’s not “pearl clutching” it’s an analysis of the risk of harm versus the potential health benefits. No health benefits and plenty of potential harm, so no, not something that’s going to be legitimised any time soon.

@Proteinpudding again, that's your reading of what I have posted. I have already clarified, twice. As I said before:

"I referred to the GPhC, and this thread is about slim people accessing POM for obesity, so in that context I thought it was appropriate to mention the GPhC view on this. So this medication is at high risk of misuse and of people trying to access it inappropriately, as I already said in my previous clarification."

I completely agree that people should be able to make an informed decision and have access to reliable facts to do so. I hope that an online discussion forum is not the sole source of their facts.

@Safarisagoody I said that because there is a risk to anyone taking WLI of potentially harmful side effects. I am at risk of those, as I take Mounjaro. The risks of those potentially harmful side effects are weighed up against the potential benefits to me.

I am absolutely not saying that individual people will be harmed if they take WLI.

You can imagine how much I regret not clarifying those two words "high risk" in my original post.

If you 'keep clarifying' and everyone else is getting a different impression from your posts, maybe consider whether you're being as clear as you think you are, rather than assuming everyone else is 'misreading'.

This point:

'The risks of those potentially harmful side effects are weighed up against the potential benefits to me'

Applies to everyone who is prescribed it, including those you would consider to be 'slim'.

@Proteinpudding that's a fair point. I will review my posts more carefully in future, thanks, and try not to post in haste.

That's kind of you to say @SilenceInside I honestly haven't intended my posts as a personal attack and I hope it hasn't come across that way as I can be a short in my posts. I think it can be easy to think that people who don't look visibly obese have got it easy. I'm not going to pretend it's the same struggles as someone who is, but that slimmer person might once have been obese, or be on the pathway to it, or might be managing their weight but only through disordered eating. Everyone on these boards has their own reasons for researching WLI or considering them, and we've probably got more in common than not.

My friend just sent it her photo in chat gpt and asked it to add weight.

that was a year ago so maybe they have clamped down on it.

Im confused why WLI aren’t more freely available. My BMI is 23 but my waist measurement is MUCH more than half my height and MUCH more than 88cm. Both of which the NHS app say put me at significant risk of health impacts. It’s not just cosmetic below BMI of 27

It’s approved as a drug to treat obesity as that’s the trials it went through,

I think it can be easy to think that people who don't look visibly obese have got it easy. I'm not going to pretend it's the same struggles as someone who is, but that slimmer person might once have been obese, or be on the pathway to it, or might be managing their weight but only through disordered eating.

I agree! There are lots of health conditions that you can struggle to live with but if there is a safe and effective drug that can help you manage it without so much struggle, why shouldn’t you take it?

I bet that the manufacturers are pushing to get testing and approval for long term use for people under the current starting BMI level. If nothing else, think of the money they could make!

At the risk of incurring wrath by posting again...

@WLIcurious current and upcoming trials for WLI focus on treating obesity/overweight with additional health conditions, or treating conditions like cardiovascular disease or T2 diabetes without needing to be overweight. That's likely to be because it will be very much easier to get existing or new WLI medications approved by the various regulatory bodies for things like that, than for weight loss that isn't medically necessary.

The markets for medication to treat other health conditions either with or without obesity/overweight is still absolutely huge, if you consider that the US and India are very large markets. Lilly and Novo Nordisk will be looking at getting the biggest return for their investment in R&D and trying to get prescription medication approved for people at a healthy weight with no other medical issues is unlikely and not worth the effort.

I have a friend who is a consultant in the NHS, I know he feels strongly about wanting his patients to have access as they tend to be people who are very disadvantaged and have a lot of physical health issues including weight gain caused by other meds. That led to us discussing use in the general population.
His view was he wouldn't expect the NHS to focus on, or pay for PTs for the general population, but it the general population can afford to have a PT to stay healthy and not end up at his door, they should. He sees it as them taking responsibility if they can, and WLI the same. I have to say I agree with him.

To those saying those with bmi of 22 can’t possibly have a fat tummy. I’m also 5 foot 7 so my BMI is going to be lower due to my height too. I strength train 4 times a week, can do 10 pull ups, deadlift 100kg - muscle mass is not my problem! I eat 100-130g protein a day. But my problem is I find it near impossible to eat at the calorie deficit I need to lose the final half stone. I can maintain fine - but eating the 3-400 cals less a day I need by myself is proving so hard esp at 41.

This will help me with that short term deficit then I can go back to maintenance (which I know will be slightly lower than current maintenance).

for me it is a short term fix to help me stay in deficit, and I fully know that if I go back and eat above maintenance the the weight will go back on. Same as at any point in life when you eat above maintenance- you gain weight! My overall diet is v healthy I’m not worried about about habits.

here is a screen shot of my post 3 pregnancies BMI 22 tummy! Yes lots is loose skin but lots is still fat.

Goodness tog are being utterly ridiculous.

I got it at BMI 24 - menopausal and wanted to lose a couple of stone that just wouldn't shift. I'd previously tried it a few years back when they weren't as stringent at wanting photos, etc. so lied initially and because I still had an active account with the provider I didn't have to provide any additional evidence. I've lost 24lbs so far but only going to take the last dose of this pen and stop as I'm happy where I am now - BMI is now 21 so still perfectly healthy

This is my stomach with a BMI of 23. It also shows that BMI is a bad indicator as my BMI is 23 with circa 15-18% bodyfat. But I’m shorter (163cm) and have a lot of muscle. And more likely to hold onto thigh fat than belly fat.

@Amberkitten7654321
I think that your situation is similar to mine and is a good example of where I think thin and healthy people could benefit from WLIs.

You could actually be suffering from obesity but can manage it through very controlled eating and exercise, but it is very hard mentally to keep a grip on yourself like that for long periods.

This is a great example! BMI is not a good indication. It’s designed to be used on a large scale level to spot trends not on an individual level. Several of my very fit, muscular friends have BMI which would put them as overweight on the scale and eligible for wli but their fat % is very low. My bmi is much much lower but my fat % is much higher - and really they should measure and prescribe on that, but obvs much harder to measure at home.

also very jealous of your toned tummy!’

Yes I have been quite overweight before and my weight flaccuates wildly over the years. I’m at my lowest weight for some time but also crucially my fittest, healthiest and strongest. I lost 2 stone just on gym and portion control over 12 months and just need some help with the final bits. I absolutely don’t want to be skinny, I’ve worked too hard for these muscles! I just want them to show a little more! I’m only taking 1.25 to take the edge off. I don’t even want to go to 2.5 as worried I won’t eat enough to sustain the training.

It depends how your fat is distributed. Many/most women of your BMI would not have a 6 pack.
I have an apple shape. I've been BMI 18 with 12% body fat, the fat I had was on my stomach. When I put on weight it is on my stomach. I have slender limbs and no arse at most BMIs.

As you said its an INDICATOR for the masses.