Discussion about Charles Spencer's book - Swan Song : Diana, my sister , Beautiful, Beloved, Hunted.

[BasiliskStare]

I know there is a thread about the theft of some pre publication editions of this book.
This thread is more by way of a book club discussion about the actual book , the text. Threads will go where they will , but my intention is this is more for me to give my opinion on the book and for others who read it or are interested in the book to join in. I have pre-ordered from Kindle (half price otherwise I may not have 😊) But is only available on September 22nd. So a holding place if you like.

As Spencer is keen to point out, his family has far deeper roots in historic English and Stuart royal blood than the parvenu House of Windsor, whose ancestry leans heavily towards German princely houses.

Parts of its recent ancestry. Overall the 'parvenu' RF's ancestry can be traced back to the Anglo Saxons.

But he’s angry that the Spencers have been forced into the shadows of the Windsors. He says this was a fate suffered by his mother, Frances Shand Kydd, whose birth on the Sandringham estate in 1936 was eclipsed by King George V’s death on the same day less than a mile away.

Lord Dawson obviously did it just to spite the Spencers.

Oh yes I think he’s fairly deplorable all round but my point was to that slightly obsessed with Diana poster that he likes money , any way he can “earn” it. Earn is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence!

Which is all fine but bloody hell mate , save it for the confines of your therapists office like the rest of us do.

He does sound a bit mad - angry because his mother’s birth was “eclipsed” by the death of George V?! And because his father, as an equerry, was warned off pursuing Elizabeth by Mountbatten. (Which if true is probably for the best given she was married with children at the time.) Nutty.

So the Times review says that CS reports Diana pushing Raine Spencer down the stairs because of something Riane had said AFTER Diana was married to Charles. I have certainly read that Diana pushed Raine down the stairs but I thought it happened years before, when Raine was fairly new on the scene.

Her brother proudly declares that Diana thought the splendour of her family’s Northamptonshire seat “certainly knocked Highgrove into a cocked hat!”

That is so funny.

Comparing the family seat to essentially a gentleman's residence!

I am shocked by this as I thought it happened when Diana was a child not as an adult. This is not normal behaviour for anyone.

The Times review has merely confirmed to me that CS is just a very bitter man taking a pop at the RF under the pretence of writing about something different.

See also Harry and Spare.

At the time? Do you mean in the mid 90s?
I have never ever heard such a rumour. Where was it reported?

Spencer is careful to insist that his own house has never been anti-monarchy. They have served royalty “with patriotism rather than sycophancy” and have been “respectful of the Crown, but not afraid to hold its wearers to account”

Ah, that'll be the Robert Spencer instrumental in inviting William of Orange to Britain and ousting James II.

Great quote from Britannica about him - His ability to shift allegiances was both the secret of his success and the cause of his unpopularity.

The main things which stand out to me are:

CS, Diana and H all have great similarities of character. All are/ were histrionic and vengeful. This is a defining Spencer trait snowing up in several family members throughout history.

CS may well have made comments about KC to people years ago, but that does not mean they are true rather they reflect his anger and jealousy of the RF.

He now recalls his anger and hatred as if he is looking back on the truth. Well it is “his truth” as H would say.

Like H, CS seems to think “therapy” and a diagnosis means he is the centre of the world and can behave as he likes and treat people how he likes.

KC has his flaws but I have never (before now) seen any suggestion that he is cruel, quite the opposite. He is routinely mocked as too gentle and indecisive.

Diana was not a perfect mother. She leant far too much on William and treated him as an adult when he was just a child. She spoke proudly of him pushing tissues under the bathroom door when she was locked in there sobbing when in fact this does not reflect well on her at all.

However, she clearly loved both her sons and as W &H’s uncle CS should realise the last thing his sister would want is to cause yet more stress to W and to wade into the division between the two brothers and make it worse.

Diana was very proud that W would be king and I can’t believe she would approve of her brother actively undermining the monarchy at a time when W is poised to take over.

I think it was the wedding rehearsal for CS first wedding.

Diana thought that Raine was side lining their mother.

So in some ways not even anything to do with Diana.

Raine was born a McCorquodale so Lady Sarah Spencer became distantly related when she married Neil McCorquodale.

Your post is superb.

So CS has basically come up with any old shite (KC potential ear pinning leading to PP having a corgi's ears altered) and claimed 'well Diana believed it'? Is he trying to make her appear mad?

Shame he didn't say that Diana believed the gym photos were due to Piers Morgan.

from what I remember it came out in dribs and drabs here because Michael fawcett got an injunction to block the story of the allegations.

In the beginning there was a story about an unnamed staff member getting an injunction. Then the papers were allowed to say that it was Michael Fawcett who’d got the injunction, but not the actual allegations and that was followed by a statement from Clarence House basically saying that the banned story was absolute lies.

eventually the fact the story was that Smith claimed to witness a staff member performing a sex act on Charles came out bits at a time because the injunction didn’t cover anywhere else so the story was everyone in Europe and America. I read about it on holiday in Mallorca.

It went away quite quickly because Smith then offered to give an apology and retraction story to another newspaper who offered him money so he was quickly seen as someone who would say anything for money.

Been down a Diana rabbit hole last few days. Read The Housemaid’s Diary (Wendy Berry) one banned here, published in US. She was the Highgrove housekeeper at the height of Chuck n Di arguing. (Found it online as a free pdf)

Then after that read Ken Wharffe’s book, Di’s protection officer over a number of years.

One common theme I got from this is that Diana sure needed a lot of mollifying and calming, both books mention throughout that she was in floods of tears, seemingly on a daily basis. Prone to temper tantrums.

We all know that Charles is prone to tantrums and petulance, they were never going to work well even if all the other stuff aligned. (Well he loved another woman and Diana was a teenager when they got married which is ick.)

They are/were both dysfunctional people. Their great wealth and entitlement, however much good works Diana did, doesn’t make them particularly lovely people, particularly to each others and those whose employment relied on keeping in their favour. Wharffe was employed by Scotland Yard so had a buffer. Berry got on ok with both but Diana was very cruel to her personal dresser. Very mercurial in mood.

Plus the extra maritals. Diana thought she had found a Prince straight out of Cartland books. So you can excuse her I guess once she knew her OH had used her. But she then did the same to Oliver Hoare’s wife, who stamped on her hard when she got the police involved - Wharffe confirmed that happened.

You probably all know this, but I didn’t!

I have to admit, I'd always assumed that Diana was a child when she pushed her stepmother down the stairs (which would be bad enough), but apparently she was 28. Which has shocked me tbh, it's very extreme behaviour and most ordinary people would be arrested for it. I guess the stepmother was persuaded not to report it to the police but D's behaviour on that occasion was appalling - she could have killed the woman!

Likewise.

I hope it bombs too and makes greedy CS very little money, but I suspect it will sell very well, because scurrilous books of royal gossip usually do. However, I hope it results in the kind of disdain for the author that 'Spare' led to, incontinent, ghost-written drivel that that was.

Nice to see a post about Diana’s mother who always gets lost in this series of events. So very sad that she outlived two of her children.

She did a lot of charity work up near Oban involving herself with Hosanna House the children’s hospice and the Children’s Pilgrimage Trust, Fisherman’s welfare, and search and rescue dogs. She also ran a little gift shop at one point.

For PM to just characterise her simplistically like that is unfair.

I’m looking forward to my copy arriving.

This is an interesting post - thanks for all your reading …. However at least 4 of the 6 (known about relationships) Diana had were with men who were already married, engaged or in a relationship - Mannakee, Carling, Hoare, Al Fayed, - Khan and Hewitt were not in relationships. Of course these men had equal responsibility but it’s quite an entitled / impulsive behaviour. Seems she was quite a High Conflict Personality - no doubt born out of nature and nurture (lack of) and an extremely challenging environment in a fake marriage. Explains it doesnt excuse it though.

There's probably a very good reason for that. She was in a serious car accident.

I found this article in The Guardian from 2002 but it refers to a “new” rape allegation so I’m confused now… how many were there exactly?

It also refers to a culture of bullying at the Palace.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/nov/09/monarchy.jamiewilson

Thank you for adding another layer. I don’t have a problem with revealing her problematic drinking - likely born from being thrown in the path of her hideous violent drunk husband from the age of 15. It helps to understand what Diana was also dealing with - an emotionally unavailable mother thru trauma and alcohol and physically as she was not in the home or even anywhere nearby for visiting. No idea how often she would have seen her. A very derelict emotional childhood experienced by Diana left her with little foundational security for what was to come.