Here we go … Andrew to leave Royal Lodge and lose title

[Flixon]

Headlined in The Times just now …. About bloody time …

Why has only one man been punished? What about all the other prominent men who visited that island?

Although I do agree with you about the book, @LBFseBrom - I do wonder about the "Minister" who choked Virginia. Who was he? Why is he not called to account?

Well, I knew some of what was going on. And I’m not his sister….

Anne is an ex girlfriend of Camilla's ex husband. What a weird lot they are.

What did you know? Enough to convict him? Beyond all doubt?
Anne has seen him, when - at the Queen's funeral, the Coronation, the Christmas church visit?
What you are doing is casting blame on a woman with no evidence to support this. She may only have exchanged half a dozen words in 5 years. We have no idea.
I think it's important to hold people to account, but not accuse unfairly

👍

I listened to the BBC Newscast podcast that was linked up thread.
Victoria Darbyshire made the very pertinent point that their Majesties' finances would also bear scrutiny. She is not wrong there.

Fair point, very fair.

I believe that he treated the young Diana extremely poorly, using her as a brood mare whilst being in love with somebody else.

I also think that this was his biggest mistake (that we know of, naturally!) and that human beings make bad decisions sometimes. I believe that he and Diana were on friendly terms by the year of her accident so I infer that she forgave him - although I’ve no idea of course.

I can forgive someone a bad decision, that is my point.

Can’t believe I’m kind of defending KC!

Another point I’d make, is that I don’t want gossip relating to consensual and legal relationships/sex to muddy the waters (I’m not implying that you do btw, Hedwig). I don’t care about Rose Hanbury/James Hewitt/whoever. I want the big proper stories. I also don’t want to see spiteful little articles about the Middletons as a deflection.

And The Windsors!

There is always room for a discussion in a democracy. But it needs to be a proper discussion with clear and thought through alternatives. We can't just talk about taking money from royals and giving it to the NHS, that's the story of argument that Brexit used (£350 million pw for the NHS - what happened to that?). It was a mirage.

I would like to see transparency in royal finances, clarity as to what belong to who in terms of the monarch, the individual and the crown estate. If we area going to start looking at tax practises that needs to affect everyone wealthy not just one family.

I remain a constitutional monarchist until I see a clear, detailed, viable alternative. At the moment I don't see one presented.

Good points, @Reddog1 . In the tsunami of accusations, it's important to be clear on what crimes have been committed, and by whom, what is not relevant and what is speculation and gossip.

No weirder than many other people, judging by mumsnet threads. Lots of people lives are messy.

Too true!

No, of course not. But enough for me to want to know more. Particularly if I am the blunt, no nonsense, tell it like it is person my publicity says I am.

They won’t mind proper scrutiny of their financial arrangements, then, will they? In fact, they should welcome it.

For the PP who said something like why would the survivors want everything "raked over". I work with survivors of historical sexual abuse and assault every day and most of them absolutely DO want the abusers' crimes known and acknowledged, and their story and suffering heard, even decades later. I can't believe you dont understand this.

D’you think? Doesn’t seem that odd to me. We are in our 50’s with a big group of friends from various stages of life, there are loads of ex boyfriends and girlfriends from teens, 20’s 30’s that are now happily married to other members of the same groups - thats pretty normal I think.

I’d imagine Fergie is sharpening her biro’s and planning a book deal…

One man has been punished for his own actions by his family, not the law.

The other people involved should undoubtedly be punished for their actions too but how given they are able to make laws to protect themselves and each other. Also there are surely reasons why Gislaine hasn't thrown any single one of them under the bus, and I doubt it's an act of kindness on her part.

The ex PM VG talks about is not British.

She didn't name him, just said he was an 'ex government minister', so we don't know who he is. That was dreadful, terrifying. I assumed on reading he was an American but rumours are going around that he was Israeli. Who knows? There's no point in speculating.

Virginia Giuffre, her husband and children were quite happy in Australia until she was found and persuaded to take part in the Epstein investigation. Epstein had settled a lot of money on her when they parted, she no doubt thought it was behind her. I suppose she felt she had no choice, had to speak out and set things straight as she was implicated in procuring girls for him. It was a big thing for them to uproot and relocate to America at that time. If she'd been left alone she might still be alive.

She had tried to commit suicide before, and nearly died, at least twice before the final, fatal one. That is very tragic.

I suspect that they understand it perfectly well but they just don't care.

It'll be an interesting Royal family gathering at Sandringham whether or not Mr M-W is allowed into the "big house" for din-dins.
Beattie and Eug will be torn - but they have plenty of financial consolations.

He's not invited. They said that, he won't be joining them at Christmas.

I’m not a Royalist , it’s a positive step but why has it taken so long for anyone who has been groomed Male or Female.

Thought to ponder - if most men weren't obsessed with sex, none of this would have happened! Its not money, but sex, which is the root of all evil.