Old dog unwell and incontinent and we are due to go on holiday soon.

[LabsAreTheBest]

I have an old labrador who is not well. He has a slow growing cancer and a bit of arthritis. The trouble is he is now starting to wee and poo indoors. He is well in himself and still enjoys his food (well, he's a lab) and a slow and short walk daily. He is still happy but he sleeps most of the time. The pooing and weeing is happening almost every day now - it is mostly at night when he can't get out. When he was younger if he ever needed to wee / poo he would bark at night and he would only ever need to go once in a blue moon. Now he doesn't bark and he's soiling in the kitchen most nights. I have no utility room or anywhere else I can put him. I am putting puppy pads out every night now.

We am going away at the end of the month and he was going to stay with a friend of mine for the week - he's stayed there before and he loves it there. The thing is now he is often weeing and pooing in the house I think this is too big an ask of my friend.

What other options are there for me. I suggested a house / pet sitter to my OH but he is adamant he doesn't want anyone staying at our house. I am wondering if maybe it might be time for the end but I do feel it's too early and that I'm just doing it out of convenience almost.

Some people just don’t want the inconvenience and convince themselves it’s for their dog’s wellbeing so they don’t feel guilty about it. I had this conversation with our vet recently during a check-up for my 13yo dog.

I’m sure some people would have her PTS as she has continence issues and a bit of arthritis that she’s on meds for, despite the fact she is a very happy soul, loves her walks, chases her ball still.

People love their dogs, until they get old and start to make a mess, then it’s time for them to go.

@moppety there is something so precious about the oldies, yes they need more support, but they often have a lot of enjoyment still to be had x

I wouldn’t go away leaving my dog with others like this. My choccie got to 13.5 years that last night I slept on the hall floor with her. We knew ir was time phoned the vet and before she got in the car she walked the perimeter of the garden front and back as I’m sure she knew it was time to say goodbye. I loved her so much it broke my heart when my husband came back with just her collar. I couldn’t go as we had a young daughter. We took her ashes to Walberswick a few weeks later (she loved it there) and buried them in a sand dune on the beach. Her name was Winnie.

You sound like a lovely dog owner and I’m sorry about your pooch.

Im sure it isn’t the case for all, but some vets will monetise from the love we have for our pets and I’m not sure you’d always get an honest opinion. If they think they can keep getting money out of you for treatment then I can’t see them advising to PTS. Obviously not all vets, and it sounds like Winnie had a good one.

Maybe you could try this op, a decent vet will be truthful and it might give you the confidence to make a decision one way or the other.

We left our lovely boy far too long . He too was incontinent in the end - the vet told us that once that started it was the time to let him go .
You can’t expect your friend to deal with all of that . His health is clearly declining so it not just the incontinence but the possibility of more vet visits and him becoming worse in himself whilst you’re away

Winnie certainly did. She had a lump on her jaw at 12 but it was on a stalk and the vet removed under sedation and local. She didn’t suffer for 2 years it was costing £££ even on prescription and online vet pharmacy but we knew it was time when it was.

Her vet was the best.

I think a lot of people leave it too long before making the decision to let their dog go. The fact is, he’s not going to improve, he’s just going to continue downhill (sorry to be blunt).

Our dog was exactly the same, I can’t remember the name of it but it was a gradual dying off of the nerves in her back end so she couldn’t tell when she needed the loo. She started getting wobbly on her feet as her rear end was going, and falling over. It was so undignified but I kept her going longer than I should have.

It’s not the only issue here though is it? It’s an elderly dog with cancer who’s incontinent every night (which in itself is stressful for dogs) not a healthy dog full of the joys having the odd accident.

Not going is an option though. Those are your only choices I think. You put him to sleep which you don’t feel he is at the stage for or your husband goes to the wedding and you stay with the dog at home.

@pinkishtongue appreciate that, especially as someone who had to euthanise an old dog (with cancer) a few weeks ago….but @LabsAreTheBest does state herself that she doesn’t feel it is time. If the dog is not in pain and is content for a while longer….is a wedding invitation the reason to PTS?

Were it not for that would @LabsAreTheBest be considering, if the answer is no, then personally I would be declining the invite rather than euthanising my dog when no didn’t feel it was the right time.

I don't know how it is for dogs and I can't say if the OP's dog is there yet but all I know is that I would not like to sleep in a room where I had soiled myself. Incontinence is brushed off by so many people but think how you would feel if that were you. Dogs are different of course but do they really not notice/mind when they shit themselves in the night and have to continue sleeping in that room until their owner comes to clean it up? And if they don't notice, then what is their quality of life?
The problem is when people say their owner will know when it's time is that they are asking that owner to make a reasonable judgment and when you are faced with having to end the life of something you love, it's hard to do that without emotions getting in the way. With the benefit of hindsight and when the pain of losing a dog has lessened people often realise they left it too late.

True.
Also, animals hide pain for as long as they can. It is a survival instinct hardwired into them. By the time it is clearly visible to us, they have been suffering for quite some time.
People say oh I would know if my dog/cat was in pain...

No. You wouldn't. You only see it when they are in so much pain their survival instinct to hide weakness from predators can no longer hide it.

That's true. A vet told me this. Also that eating is one of the last instincts to go. I thought ddog had longer because he still ate. I let him go on a bit too long. It's a really difficult decision to make but we need to for their sakes.

If I ever get another dog I'll know better. My first dog died on the operating table so the decision was taken away from me.

No animal wants to soil themselves.

Also dogs want to be with and please their owners, so of course they will struggle along for a walk and fetch a ball thrown for them. That doesn't demonstrate they are happy or pain free.

Agree.
And that is what I mean when I see dogs all the time when I am out on walks who don't necessarily need to be pts - although some clearly do - but need a different type of exercise. Latest was a woman marching off, leaving her 3-legged French bulldog struggling to keep up with her. Might have been ok with a little potter but every time the dog went to stop and sniff or just wait for the pain to subside or get its breath back, that came with a penalty as the owner disappeared further into the distance. I may be more sensitive to it than most as I used to do a sport where I was frequently struggling to keep up and it's no fun.

At the end of the day, you would not be considering PTS unless you had somewhere you wanted to be and your dog was a barrier to that. Would you PTS if there wasn’t a wedding to go to? Doesn’t sound like you would. You’ve made all the excuses as to why you apparently can’t have a sitter and apparently why you can’t cancel when it’s obvious the only answer here is that one of you stays at home with the dog.

@TheGreatDownandOut The dog isn’t well though! Why do we keep animals alive and ditch human beings? The dog has had a good life! I’d be going to the vet because the dog doesn’t have quality of life and that matters to me for pets. Keeping them alive and refusing to see relatives at an important event, does actually matter. We always think less of people who do this and no-one likes clearing up dog mess in the home! No-one.

If you genuinely don't think it's time to pts then could you put him in a kennels/put him in with the vet and just go out for the wedding itself (so 3 days - fly out, wedding, fly back.)? Would he be ok with that or would it just stress him out? I'm not sure I'd be caring too much for a MIL who would get upset about you not attending the wedding of your husband's niece. Sorry you're having to deal with this op. It does sound like it might be time though.

Vets don't board pets. They don't have the actual facilities. They only have small hospital kennels for recovering patients.

When my old dog was nearing the end I told my DD that as soon as he can’t make it outside that’s time - in fact before then. Dog that are house trained will get distressed if they mess inside. And I knew my dog who had never had an accident since he was four months old would be very much distressed.
A dog who appears happy may not be that at all. They can be hiding a lot.
What has your vet said?

Such a hard situation 💔

my gut feeling says - when you do PTS (because you will need to) do not do it with one of the reasons being attending a social occasion. You will never forgive yourself.

Even if PTS at the end of the month is going to happen anyway, your brain will eat you up and with the association of it around wedding attendance.

Decline the wedding invite, feel the wrath and don't care. They'll get over it. Or not. Whatever.

I think in these circumstances, I would cancel the holiday and be with your dog.

Edited as read your updates about reason/MIL - I would still do what’s best for your dog and cancel, let you DH go and you stay with the dog, surely they won’t kick off at that as one of you is going. He’s given you his life and now he needs you.